Cliff, Get rid of the older firmware modeling options to free up space!!

[Jason Scott]

Perhaps this is a little obvious at least from my perspective, but what is the point of updating the firmware if you just want to use the older version? The whole point of upgrading the firmware is to have a much more accurate and powerful device that will sound better. I can understand that people like their older version of their presets, and by upgrading firmware they might have to tweak the settings a bit. To me the individuality of a guitar players tone comes from their own fingers and their own unique technique and skill. Having a much more powerful device to bring the sound you hear in your head to life is what every guitar player really wants. Which is why you have people like Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, John Petrucci, etc,. using this monster. I think like any product you have to decide whether or not you need to upgrade to the next newest firmware, and whether or not it would be a benefit for you to do so.

This is just my opinion in my circumstance, because the whole reason I purchased an Axe Fx II XL was because of what it can do.

Read post #11:

"The entire reason selectable firmware versions were implemented in the first place was because updates can and often do change the way older presets (that some are perfectly content with) sound. It was meant as a compromise between being able to retain the sound of older presets and enjoying the benefits of future upgrades."

 

[Lifestalker]

Even if this is done it may or may not buy the MK I and II users more then an update or 2. looks like to me every one should enjoy what they have, or upgrade! not much to debate about there!

I'd be okay with that.

 

[Johan Allard]

Perhaps this is a little obvious at least from my perspective, but what is the point of updating the firmware if you just want to use the older version? The whole point of upgrading the firmware is to have a much more accurate and powerful device that will sound better. I can understand that people like their older version of their presets, and by upgrading firmware they might have to tweak the settings a bit. To me the individuality of a guitar players tone comes from their own fingers and their own unique technique and skill. Having a much more powerful device to bring the sound you hear in your head to life is what every guitar player really wants. Which is why you have people like Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, John Petrucci, etc,. using this monster. I think like any product you have to decide whether or not you need to upgrade to the next newest firmware, and whether or not it would be a benefit for you to do so.

This is just my opinion in my circumstance, because the whole reason I purchased an Axe Fx II XL was because of what it can do.

I get it that people would want this feature. If I had say 100 presets that I needed for a few gigs in different bands/settings/recordings/... and I knew the firmware would change most of them, I would be very hesitant to update firmware where's now, I can update and take my time, preset per preset to tweak and make sure everything sounds as expected with the latest modelling.

But personally, I'm happy just to update to the latest firmware and deal with any changes that happens.

Unfortunately, Cliff has already stated that he thinks its too much work to only enable modelling versions in the XL/XL+ and not the Mk1/2.

 

[Johan Allard]

Is it possible to remove the feature on the MK1/2 but leave it on the Xl/Xl+?

No, Cliff has already stated that would be too much work.

 

[Morphosis]

The amount of work involved is conditional upon the number of presets that are dependent on older firmware for their tonal characteristics. Personally, I think selectable firmware is a stroke of genius on Cliff's part and solves the issue.

If the willing is there, expanding the lifetime of MK1/MK2 - and i assume it is ... I second the idea of decrease the baked in factory Cabs, if they use the same memory, which seems getting out of memory. Who use NON UR cabs these days anymore? A minority, i assume. And for those, this data can be supplied as external User Cabs, IMO. So, in fact, NOTHING would get lost. As long as this data would be supplied as .IR format, it would be only usable for Axe-Fx II devices anyway. Or the hard way: Customers do tonematches of those old HiRes Cabs and save them externaly (User Cab export). The quality decreasement from 2048 samples to 1024 samples, the tonematch provides, should be negligible (If the RAW tonematch data is not even longer, when exporting as user cab, don`t know). Even more negligible in relation, when thinking about, what the longterm investment guys of MKII Users will win, due to longer algorithm improvements in the Amp department.

Secondly i second also to get rid of choosable Amp modelling selection, although it would unnecessary limit the XL / XL+ users, BECAUSE: Amp modelling selection was and is always a concession for a small group of people, who likes the "old" FW modelling better. But in fact, it just increase time to adapt their tones to the current modelling algorithm, because the oldest modelling selection disappears anyway, when newer and newer Firmwares came out.

Especially MKII customers, who bought their unit in the time, MKII and XL were parallel newsworthy did a longterm investment in trust beeing up to date with the modelling technology also in the future, because it was always the underlying statement (at least to me), that MKI/MKII & XL/XL+ were basically the same Axe-Fx II family, although the introduction statement for the XL promise, that in the future it COULD happen, that certain improvements will be XL exclusive:

From the XL Introducing (2014): http://www.fractalaudio.com/announcing-axe-fx-ii-xl.php

• 128 Mb of non-volatile Super-FLASH memory allows for storage of up to 512 presets and 512 user cabinets with copious reserves for future expansion.
• Double-capacity preset size allows for expanded functionality including X/Y switching on more blocks and more instances of effects.

It was always stated, at least in my understanding, that the modelling of the MKII and XL will be the same. The two feature statements did although suggest, that the spread of feature set between MKII and XL could increase in the future. But more for more preset memory, user cab memory, new FX blocks, more block instances, more scenes, more ... blahblah, but not the heart of the unit: the quality of the amp modelling.

Personally, I´m still on the trusty MKI unit. And i am extremely satisfied with (apart the fu`ing loud 60mm fan ...), very happy and thankfully about the improvements in the last years and would be not disappointed, if my unit would be EOL in a short term view, because without a doubt: It is a awesome unit as it is now

 

[selta]

I've been pondering how to put this since I read about it... but I'm coming up short on ways to put it eloquently.

As a bass player who's been using a Mark II for several years now, and as someone who has been quite outspoken at FAS's lack of actual bass guitar support in these products, this news is pretty disheartening. Cliff recently announced a couple of new bass amps coming in a future firmware, which sounds like I might not be able to enjoy. That's pretty shitty... and I can't even begin to justify buying an XL+ - especially since there's no sign that beyond those two new amps, anything else useful will be added at all for bass players. Spending a couple thousand bucks for a couple of amps... meh.

Dons flamesuit and waits for the inevitable onslaught of guitarists telling him what he has is "good enough" and "great tones can still be had".

 

[Jason Scott]

Secondly i second also to get rid of choosable Amp modelling selection, although it would unnecessary limit the XL / XL+ users, BECAUSE: Amp modelling selection was and is always a concession for a small group of people, who likes the "old" FW modelling better.

No, it's a concession for people that have numerous presets which rely on older firmware to retain how they sound, and there was apparently enough interest for Cliff to implement the feature.

But in fact, it just increase time to adapt their tones to the current modelling algorithm, because the oldest modelling selection disappears anyway, when newer and newer Firmwares came out.

Users can select older firmware versions starting with Quantum 2.0, and as far as I know there are no plans to change that. Further, it's a hell of a lot easier to select a previous firmware version in an older preset than to trudge through each and every preset dinking with knobs, attempting to adapt them by ear manually. So no, it doesn't increase adaption times.

 

[Morphosis]

Users can select older firmware versions starting with Quantum 2.0, and as far as I know there are no plans to change that. Further, it's a hell of a lot easier to select a previous firmware version in an older preset than to trudge through each and every preset dinking with knobs, attempting to adapt them by ear manually. So no, it doesn't increase adaption times.

It does. I assume, you start your Axe yourney at Q2? The Global modelling selection was introduced on FW7 or FW8, if i remember correct. I can`t jump back to modelling my Presets, i create for FW9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19, Q1 ... and will not for Q3,4,5, ... when we are on FW Q8,9,...

That means, what i said: The modelling selection is only for the max. 2 last MajorAmp modelling versions from the past! That said, sooner or later you have to rethink older presets, you have created. It`s just a question when ...

The global modelling selection expands the lifetime for maximal 3 Major upgrades, so the time period you have to touch older presets just expands, nothing else ...

 

[ben ifin]

Ok .... this is potentially a " no lose " / " win-win " ... I think the OP's idea is great and it suits everyone .... heres why:-

*Assuming* that removing the "old FW" option for future FW's will enable the Mk 1 / Mk 2 models to be upgradable for some time then

a) as an owner of a Mk1 / Mk 2 you can choose or not choose to upgrade depending on whether or not you like the new f/w

b) if you do like the sounds of the new FW .... all good .... you move forward with FW updates

c) if you dont like the sounds of the new FW .... then just roll-back to the pre-existing final " end of line " FW

Even if you fall in to the (c) category ... you're lost nothing as your FW was " end of the line " anyway.

Now ... having said all this ..... its all a moot point unless Fractal are willing to do this ..... however ......

-> if / when its FW " end of the line " for the Mk 1 / Mk 2 please tell us, so that those of us that can afford to sell and upgrade can do so if they wish .... and those that cant / wont can move forward knowing that their Mk1 / Mk 2 is now formally / officially " end of line " .

Ben

 

[Jason Scott]

It does. I assume, you start your Axe yourney at Q2? The Global modelling selection was introduced on FW7 or FW8, if i remember correct. I can`t jump back to modelling my Presets, i create for FW9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19, Q1 ... and will not for Q3,4,5, ... when we are on FW Q8,9,...

FractalAudio, post #49:

"If the preset was originally created before the option to select the Modeling Version it will be set to Latest. IOW older presets may be set to latest depending upon how old they are. Prior to firmware version Quantum 3.00 you could not select the Modeling Version so any presets created prior to that firmware will be set to Latest."

The global modelling selection expands the lifetime for maximal 3 Major upgrades, so the time period you have to touch older presets just expands, nothing else ...

Source?

 

[Jason Scott]

Ok .... this is potentially a " no lose " / " win-win " ... I think the OP's idea is great and it suits everyone .... heres why:-

*Assuming* that removing the "old FW" option for future FW's will enable the Mk 1 / Mk 2 models to be upgradable for some time then

a) as an owner of a Mk1 / Mk 2 you can choose or not choose to upgrade depending on whether or not you like the new f/w

b) if you do like the sounds of the new FW .... all good .... you move forward with FW updates

c) if you dont like the sounds of the new FW .... then just roll-back to the pre-existing final " end of line " FW

Even if you fall in to the (c) category ... you're lost nothing as your FW was " end of the line " anyway.

Now ... having said all this ..... its all a moot point unless Fractal are willing to do this ..... however ......

-> if / when its FW " end of the line " for the Mk 1 / Mk 2 please tell us, so that those of us that can afford to sell and upgrade can do so if they wish .... and those that cant / wont can move forward knowing that their Mk1 / Mk 2 is now formally / officially " end of line " .

Ben

Considering the option would also apply to XL and XL+ users, those users would lose the option of selecting older firmware versions in order to retain compatibility with presets that rely on earlier FW for their sound.

 

[Morphosis]

FractalAudio, post #49:

"If the preset was originally created before the option to select the Modeling Version it will be set to Latest. IOW older presets may be set to latest depending upon how old they are. Prior to firmware version Quantum 3.00 you could not select the Modeling Version so any presets created prior to that firmware will be set to Latest."



Source?

Et voilá, what i said: Presets i created for FW 18,19, Q1,... will not sound as intended anymore, because they will be processed with the latest modelling algorithm = Q4.
And this will alternate happen in the future as well, as long i can do this assumption from the experiences with the behaviour from the last years ...

 

[Jason Scott]

Et voilá, what i said: Presets i created for FW 18,19, Q1,... will not probobly not sound as intended anymore, because they will be processed with the latest modelling algorithm = Q4.
And this will alternate happen in the future as well, as long i can do this assumption from the experiences with the behaviour from the last years ...

Most of the people who complained about having to adapt their presets have likely been adapting them up until Q2.0 anyway, but who's going to argue that firmware selection simply makes the process of adaption easier from Q2.0 onward?

 

[Morphosis]

FractalAudio, post #49:

"If the preset was originally created before the option to select the Modeling Version it will be set to Latest. IOW older presets may be set to latest depending upon how old they are. Prior to firmware version Quantum 3.00 you could not select the Modeling Version so any presets created prior to that firmware will be set to Latest."



Source?

Years of experience with the box. Explore for yourself: http://archive.axefx.fr/AxeFX II XL-XLplus Firmwares/
Load some older FW on your device and take a look, where you`ll find the modelling selection and compare it to newer FW´s ... evaluate this to the future .... i doubt Cliff will blow up the FW with supporting dozens of modelling versions in the future ... he never did. the selection for the last or two last FW`s was always a concession to the people who complaint about tonal changes to their subjective negative ...

 

[Jason Scott]

Years of experience with the box. Explore for yourself: http://archive.axefx.fr/AxeFX II XL-XLplus Firmwares/
Load some older FW on your device and take a look, where you`ll find the modelling selection and compare it to newer FW´s ...

From what I understand, firmware versions prior to Q2.0 didn't include the ability to select the modeling version within the amp block.

 

[Jason Scott]

i doubt Cliff will blow up the FW with supporting dozens of modelling versions in the future ... he never did. the selection for the last or two last FW`s was always a concession to the people who complaint about tonal changes to their subjective negative ...

Considering the XL+ has 4x the boot ROM capacity of the MK I/II and the MK I/II is at capacity, I have little reason to believe that "blowing up" the boot ROM of the XL / XL+ with dozens of previous modeling versions is going to be an issue any time soon, though I'm certainly open to evidence to the contrary.

 

[Morphosis]

Yep, nobody knows. Time will tell ...we`ll see...

 

[soheil]

I never use older modelings. I say nuke em

 

[zerolight]

I'm an XL user. Never use this feature. I can live without it. I can see why others like it. I know Cliff has said it's a lot of work to remove it from II but not XL, but I'd have thought it would be straight forwards? Disable the toggle on the II without changing too much code, forcing it always to "Latest". Remove the old libraries from the II firmware. Every time a new firmware build is released, just remove the libraries from II and disable toggle again. I'm sure it's way more complicated than that - but in my mind, as a java programmer, I just expect the old firmware to be a distinct library that can be included or excluded.

 

[jarabuandi]

I trust Cliff and his team...if he thinks the new fm is an improvement, I'll go with that. No looking back for me.