Exactly. I'm sure plenty of people prefer to have their exp pedals separate. Makes sense.
Sure. The one in the Helix is equal to two, or an SP1, on the AX8. But for live use, the size/weight argument is pretty pointless.
Exactly. I'm sure plenty of people prefer to have their exp pedals separate. Makes sense.
I'm a fractal noob and the AX8 is my first fractal product. I've had all the mass market modelers coming from Boss, Zoom, Digitech, and Line 6. Been gigging with the Line 6 HD500x for years now and I thought that was complicated. It was complicated not because it is not user friendly but it was hard to get a great sound on the fly.
The Helix is in a different ballgame because of that interface and the better amp models. Three clicks and you got a sound you can gig with.
Getting the AX8 was daunting for me since it was my first time. I got the beginners video from Axe Fx tutorials and that helped me immensely. Now, I don't think it's even hard to get around the unit at all. Sure, I could have used a navi pad instead of the navi knobs. But I think it is fairly easy to use on stage. I try to learn to tweak as much as possible on the unit and not depend on AX8 Edit because the AX8 is meant to be used onstage. And I find it great because you can get a great sound on the fly without tweaking the deep parameters.
And I LOVE the Gameboy screen too. It is kinda charming.
I've had a Helix since Oct/Nov last year. I just got my AX8. Here's my take so far:
AX8 pros:
- Deeper Modeling (Helix can only model like up to 12 or so components - heard Paul mention in one of the videos)
- Better routing (Helix only has main path and 1 alt - then loop to lower and 1 alt)
Sure. The one in the Helix is equal to two, or an SP1, on the AX8. But for live use, the size/weight argument is pretty pointless.
And that is a really nice feature, for sure!
IF the Helix gets auto engage for the wah, I'm going to rewire and add my Mission pedal with the spring for wah, making the footprint even bigger. LOL. I'm not going to argue which device is a better size since that will be different for everyone. I know I'd use at least one, if not two, expression pedals with the AX8 (like I did with the FX8) so there's no practical difference to me. However, having one built into the Helix with its own scribble strip allows for a lot more inputs/outputs on the back panel. I think that's a fair trade off.
lol i chose the AX8 because it can do a spring loaded wah. and that was like a big deal for me. damn the helix's easier UI.
and besides, i'm a clumsy guy and one falling mic cracking that big pretty color screen is an imminent possibility.
I'm a fractal noob and the AX8 is my first fractal product. I've had all the mass market modelers coming from Boss, Zoom, Digitech, and Line 6. Been gigging with the Line 6 HD500x for years now and I thought that was complicated. It was complicated not because it is not user friendly but it was hard to get a great sound on the fly.
The Helix is in a different ballgame because of that interface and the better amp models. Three clicks and you got a sound you can gig with.
Getting the AX8 was daunting for me since it was my first time. I got the beginners video from Axe Fx tutorials and that helped me immensely. Now, I don't think it's even hard to get around the unit at all. Sure, I could have used a navi pad instead of the navi knobs. But I think it is fairly easy to use on stage. I try to learn to tweak as much as possible on the unit and not depend on AX8 Edit because the AX8 is meant to be used onstage. And I find it great because you can get a great sound on the fly without tweaking the deep parameters.
And I LOVE the Gameboy screen too. It is kinda charming.
My point being that the OP specifically stated what he did NOT want discussed in his thread, yet you did it anyway. And then posted false information about something as objective as the weight of the Helix. Still, that had NOTHING to do with his question. Why people want to throw in the extraneous stuff no matter what, even though it's been written about on the board ad nauseam. The size of the units wasn't relevant, the tones, the number of models and on and on. None of it was relevant. Some of it was fanboi stuff he specifically stated he didn't want. AND ULTIMATELY YOU DIDN'T ANSWER HIS QUESTION AT ALL! THAT's what I don't get. That's my problem.
How hard is it to respect this request?:
"PLEASE: No bashing, no fanboism and if you have no true experience with these units, do not express an opinion. That may sound rather harsh, but I am making a serious inquiry, and I don't care for Monday morning quarterbacks. Further, this post does not require any discussion of the units' respective tones. In addition, I am not concerned with routing capabilities. I have a full understanding of that and know what I need in that regard. I am inquiring about programming from the unit's on-board panel, only. With that being said.."
Since you brought it up (SORRY OP!!!, but in a way this has to do with ease of programming), I have comments/questions about your two points above. What do you mean by Deeper Modeling? You make it sound like the Helix models only 12 or so components. I don't think that's correct. I think the modeling goes deep (based on discussions with the programmers), but Line 6 made the decision to limit access (for now at least) to only certain parameters. Fractal allows access to the deeper parameters which is very important to some and really a fabulous feature.
I'm not sure what you mean by better routing on the AX8 as I found its routing very limiting compared to Helix. Perhaps I missed something that will help if/when I get another AX8 down the road.
The Helix can easily have 4 completely independent paths. I think I read that it can have more than that, but I'd have to find it to be sure. You can do serial or parallel paths, you can run them into each other in various ways with splits and merges etc... I haven't gotten that deep into it, but I do have several patches for hybrid guitars where my piezo runs into the aux input and through it's own independent path (2b) and the mag pickups run through paths 1a, 1b and 2a (paths 1a and 1b use one dsp and paths 2a and 2b use the second dsp, so my mags are using the power from more than 1 dsp). I could use mags on 1a and 1b, microphone with effects in 2a and piezo in 2b etc.... That doesn't include all the loops and stuff I don't know yet. Then there's the output routing. XLR, 1/4", headphones and loop outputs are completely independent. Dedicated volume control on the phones output. Volume control that can affect XLR, 1/4" or both. That way I can send XLR to FOH and not mess with the signal they're getting and send the 1/4" to my personal monitor(s) and use the onboard volume control to control the volume of my modeler in my personal monitor without affecting FOH (and not lose my a loop to do so).
With that explanation, how is the routing better on the AX8? I'm assuming it has something to do with the grid, but I didn't clearly understand the grid.
EDIT:
I found the routing answer (mostly, but this doesn't mention the usb out paths and others). It can have four stereo paths. That's how I was coming up with 8 in my head:
Helix has two primary stereo paths—1 and 2—each of which can be:
The last one is how you get four stereo signal paths. Path 1 blocks can be routed to Path 2 blocks, and depending on where your splits and merges are, Paths 1A, 1B, 2A, and 2B can be set up for "Super Serial", where they all get routed into one gigantic 32-block path. You won't fill all 32 blocks tho', unless you really like EQs, gains, and volume pedals.
- Serial—1 input block to 1 output block
- Parallel—1 input block, split and merged before the 1 output block
- Parallel—2 input blocks, merged to 1 output block
- Parallel—1 input block split to 2 output blocks
- True Parallel (dual serial)—2 input blocks to 2 output blocks
All routing is accomplished from the Home screen. It's as simple as selecting an Output bock and then turning the joystick to select its destination. Pushing the joystick displays available destinations in a list.
Clearly you are not understanding the majority of what I wrote. The modeling limitation was mentioned in a youtube video. Look it up if you aren't familiar with it. I didn't come up with it or make it up - it's a reference.
With the routing I am not talking about external routing at all, I am talking about internal routing - yes the grid. If you don't understand the grid as you mentioned you can't understand what I mean by that. I could care less how many different discreet signal paths I can output - what I care about is what I can do with my main one.
For outputs the AX8 can handle an output and an FX output, that's enough for me.
So what can the AX8 do routing wise that helix can't? I seriously want to know.
Yeah... me too. this is like 4th or 5th time I've read something about the AX8 vs The Helix's signal routing.... Helix isn't a "grid" but what can it not do?
Totally agree. The Helix is actually a killer hub for other pedals, an almost perfect access to effects and their parameter controls, and more ways to hook it up than you might believe. It does allow for parallel effects extremely easily, saying otherwise is untrue. Quality effects, solid IRs, easy to use...killer unit. Still, it simply doesn't have that "thing" that I get out of my AxefxII. I would spend more time wondering why but I just don't care. I own both and use both. But when I need to hit the studio or I want to get lost in guitarland I turn on Fracky.Yeah... me too. this is like 4th or 5th time I've read something about the AX8 vs The Helix's signal routing.... Helix isn't a "grid" but what can it not do?
And to the OP... I got hands on with my buddy's Helix... editing was nearly auto pilot instantly... I had grasp of it instinctively, almost every assumption that I made for what I wanted to accomplish was spot on. I'm getting around in the AX8 just fine... but I had to put myself through AX8 class.
So what can the AX8 do routing wise that helix can't? I seriously want to know.
Totally agree. The Helix is actually a killer hub for other pedals, an almost perfect access to effects and their parameter controls, and more ways to hook it up than you might believe. It does allow for parallel effects extremely easily, saying otherwise is untrue. Quality effects, solid IRs, easy to use...killer unit. Still, it simply doesn't have that "thing" that I get out of my AxefxII. I would spend more time wondering why but I just don't care. I own both and use both. But when I need to hit the studio or I want to get lost in guitarland I turn on Fracky.
Clearly you are not understanding the majority of what I wrote. The modeling limitation was mentioned in a youtube video. Look it up if you aren't familiar with it. I didn't come up with it or make it up - it's a reference.
.
Excellent. First let's get on the same page. The Helix has by default with a new patch creation one main path right? The second path is disabled by default. Let's focus on that first main path for this discussion. Now I know at the end it can be routed to different outputs but that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about having your effects in serial or parallel. So option 1 is to just do one serial path. Everything is in line and that is that. Some people prefer though moving the reverb for example to a parallel path so your main signal is dry and strong and the reverb is more mixed in right? The Helix can do this. However, it can only do this once. One split from the main path to a parallel path. You select the effect and hit action and move the joystick down and bam that effect is in paralle. So I can put several effects in that parallel path but they are all affected by each other. So lets say I have my reverb in parallel but I want to next add a delay. I have to either add it to the main path, or the parallel path where the reverb already is. If i put it parallel my delay will be reverberated. If I put it in my main path, i lose my main strong dry signal - but it is clear of the reverb.
On the Axe Fx or AX8 this is way more flexible. Each grid position for any effect can be moved in and out of the main signal path and crossed up with another or not depending on which you want to effect the other. So maybe I want my chorus to cross into my reverb but not the delay or something like that, you can easily do that and the grid gives you lots and lots of routing to get it done.
Hard to explain with just verbage but do you get the idea?
Excellent. First let's get on the same page. The Helix has by default with a new patch creation one main path right? The second path is disabled by default. Let's focus on that first main path for this discussion. Now I know at the end it can be routed to different outputs but that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about having your effects in serial or parallel. So option 1 is to just do one serial path. Everything is in line and that is that. Some people prefer though moving the reverb for example to a parallel path so your main signal is dry and strong and the reverb is more mixed in right? The Helix can do this. However, it can only do this once. One split from the main path to a parallel path. You select the effect and hit action and move the joystick down and bam that effect is in paralle. So I can put several effects in that parallel path but they are all affected by each other. So lets say I have my reverb in parallel but I want to next add a delay. I have to either add it to the main path, or the parallel path where the reverb already is. If i put it parallel my delay will be reverberated. If I put it in my main path, i lose my main strong dry signal - but it is clear of the reverb.
On the Axe Fx or AX8 this is way more flexible. Each grid position for any effect can be moved in and out of the main signal path and crossed up with another or not depending on which you want to effect the other. So maybe I want my chorus to cross into my reverb but not the delay or something like that, you can easily do that and the grid gives you lots and lots of routing to get it done.
Hard to explain with just verbage but do you get the idea?
Well, you cited it so you look it up and post a link. I'm not going to watch a ton of youtube videos to try and find what you're talking about.