1500 bucks, you say, Line6?

To be totally honest, I hope it sounds better than the Axe FX because then we would have a better, cheaper processor on the market. Im just really weary their processing has been kinda lackluster in the past and they put a huge emphasis on cosmetics which could mean they are making up for other weak areas. Also the way they are talking their product up on their site saying that it has the best processing to date and all this. Companies do that to suggest to the consumer that it is the best regardless of how it really stacks up. Really revolutionary stuff kinda speaks for itself and gets around because of word of mouth. Serious musicians aren't gonna fall for gimmicks. The music industry is generally a really good example of classical free market capitalism and how the consumer really decides what the best products are from a hugely competitive market. The best products end up standing out and the gimmicks fall to the wayside.
 
fremen said:
Wondering if ?
forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-preset-exchange/47304-smilefan-says-goodbye.html
That would be Yamaha of course, as Line 6 is obviously in the game since the first POD
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Funny enough, this exact thought occurred to me as well when someone in the promotional video said "I've been here four years and now I can finally tell people what I've been working on."
 
Wow! I would love an axe fx (not AX8) in that form factor with the rings and screens. Carrying this plus a guitar to every gigs would be amazing. Let's hope for axe 3! I will buy it in a heartbeat.

I wonder if it is near the axe 2 in tone. Line6 has to be improving if they want to be competitive.
 
sirus1987 said:
...Really revolutionary stuff kinda speaks for itself and gets around because of word of mouth. Serious musicians aren't gonna fall for gimmicks...
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Stevic Mackay from Twelve Foot Ninja is apparently jumping in right away according to their Facebook site. :encouragement:
 
The folks at Line 6 ain't stupid. With the POD Family of devices they've all been priced exceptionally low for what you get. A 500HD is totally worth at least $499. It may not be a Fractal quality unit sonically but it is still a fantastic piece of gear and represents them well. I highly suspect that Line 6 has nailed it with the Helix. They are just too smart to release a product at this price point if they didn't know for sure that they were at or near Fractal and Kemper in terms of Amp tones. A lot of thoughtful feature are in that unit. It is clearly a product designed to fill many roles on stage and in the studio. Competition is food for us.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
The brain of Helix is Line 6's dual DSP HX modeling engine. Representing a giant leap forward in guitar technology, the HX engine reproduces every minute detail that goes into a great amplifier and effects sound and, just as importantly, its feel. Every single aspect has been taken into account, down to an amplifier's power supply ripple and tube sag, ensuring you receive an ultra-realistic playing feel and experience. The classic bloom and compression of some amps and the powerful punch of others are all faithfully accounted for. And you can also load custom impulse responses to personalize your tone.

"Before Helix, powerful amp and effects modeling came with a significant learning curve."
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From the L^ forum: Helix is running two of the fastest non-TigerSHARC SHARCs you can buy—the 450 MHz ADSP-21469s—with dual MCUs (one for audio duties and another dedicated to nothing but UI).

Did they really just devote one processor just for the UI (as opposed to amps or effects), am I reading this wrong?
 
I predict the AXE 3 will come out before the end of the year, most likely in Oct/Nov to spark Christmas sales & compete with Line 6. Plus, Fractal has discontinued the Axe 2 and only sales the Axe 2 XL plus now, so I think that's a clear sign that Fractal is making way for a new step up in the evolution of the Axe FX. The writing is on the wall. I think I will have the money to buy the XL by the end of July, but if I do, and if my prediction comes true I will be listing it for sale on here the day Axe 3 comes out and upgrading.

Also, I have no interest in Helix other than curiosity... I hope it is as good as Fractal because then Cliff will lower the price to something the masses can afford more easier. But I will always choose Fractal because they did this level of modeling first, I trust the Fractal reputation more than any other brand of any product of any type on this Earth. Even if Line 6 or someone does top Fractal in tone, it'd only be a matter of short time before Cliff caught up again and topped them.

Honestly, I don't think the tone of the Fractal can be improved, so I don't think Line 6 or anyone will ever have a product that has "better tone" than the Fractal. A Marshall 77 JMP or a 65 Fender Super Reverb real amp has never been improved upon, they have been at perfection since they were invented, once a product hits perfection there's nowhere else to go.

But, Fractal can improve on effects....

I want to see a Fractal unit that already has all of the Eventide delays complex patches programmed in. I want to see a Fractal that can do 8 amps at a time, a la SRV wall of sound as he used a dozen or so amps all at once combined. I want to see Fractal with a full audio interface built in 8 inputs built in, with preamp for a mic input.

I also would like to see Fractal put out headphones and studio monitors tuned specifically to the Fractal to get the best performance/use.

And for the love of all that is good Cliff, I want to see a SPRING loaded Pedal so that people don't have to push hard to kick in the wah, think Steve Vai Bad Horsie wah, spring/light activation.

And yes it would be great if Cliff could combine the rack & the floorboard so we can have it ALL in a floor unit. I'm not talking about the ax8 or the other thing where you only have SOME of the features. I'm talking about a FLOOR unit that does 100% everything that's done with having the rack unit and the floor board without losing anything.

I think that would basically be the kitchen sink there, haha everything & the kitchen sink.

Other than that, it would be great if one day all of that could be had for $1,500 or less. I've always hated spending more than $1,500 for any piece of gear.

But I am glad Line 6 has this out, and I hope it blows the Fractal away in every way possible!!! Why? Because then that will light a fire under Cliff to be more competitive pricewise and also push him to try and make something even better quality.

I know Cliff states he doesn't build things to be inexpensive, he builds them to be the best... well that's all fine & dandy, but I think the time is coming to drop the price of even the Axe 3 when it comes out to under $2,000.
Maybe $1,999.

But $2,000 is pushing it really, especially when you still need a $750 floorboard, by that point you are in at $3,250.

I'm not really complaining about the Fractal price so much, because it is what it is, it's the Rolls Royce of guitar products, so high prices are expected. But it doesn't have to remain that way.

And if Line 6 is even close to 80% of the tone of Fractal I think Cliff will be forced to start being more competitive with the price on his flagship models. Or otherwise he will lose a huge part of the market and fade away as only a high priced boutique guy.

Like Alexander Dumble. Who cares about a $15,000 amp if only 100 people can afford to buy it, when a Blues Jr sounds almost as good and sells for $500 and a MILLION people buy the Blues Jr, a million times $500 is a LOT more than 100 times $15,000 haha.

My point besides my little wish list of features above is, this line 6 is going to be a win/win for us all.

Fractal will release a Axe 3 before the end of the year... mark my words on that, it's coming yall!
 
Sweetwater demos are generally to showcase product features and not sound, if you look up their kemper review it also sounds quite bad... And we all know the kemper can sound awesome.

Line 6 and Yamaha are not idiots, they have the resources for maquing great things, and they wouldn't price this thing so high just cause the interface if they weren't confident on the sound capability of the unit/algorithms, i think this product could be at the level of the Axe/Kemper, but we should wait to see the proper amp tones demos.
 
Does it have a Klon model for real????? That's another thing I fail to understand... why does Cliff refuse to make a Klon model? Klon Centaur is the best boost pedal EVER.
 
Okay, let's play the game. Line 6 obviously borrows some Fractal Audio features. I see a couple of things I'd like to see "borrowed back" from that Helix thing.

- The multiple Send/Returns loops seem handy.
- The hires display. As a matter of fact I'd love TWO displays side by side: one dedicated to the grid, and one for editing.
- The Mic Pre/Input.
- And ... no, that's about it.

About a year ago I posted my other wishes for the "Axe-Fx III" here.

BTW, for IR producers the Helix offers a great opportunity to expand.
 
Bojangles said:
Some people have more money to buy quality gear
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Now you're being a dick.

Bojangles said:
The only thing they can learn from line 6 is how to make 57 crap products
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Fanboy... Fractal could certainly learn to make their units more user friendly like the Line6 units and the displays could obviously be better like the new Line6 unit.

The fact is that the Axe Fx is not perfect. It has strengths and weaknesses/shortcomings like all other gear. It is better in most respects than most gear but it is not better than everything in every regard. You haven't heard the Helix or used it, so your comments are mere speculation. Perhaps you may end up eating your words? Perhaps not. Only time will tell. Line6 have obviously learned a lot from FAS. Whilst their other products have fallen short of the mark, there is a possibility that they may have really come of age and nailed it with this release. Personally I hope they have.

If they have released a better product, would you not buy it?....
 
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yek said:
Okay, let's play the game. Line 6 obviously borrows some Fractal Audio features. I see a couple of things I'd like to see "borrowed back" from that Helix thing.

- The multiple Send/Returns loops seem handy.
- The hires display. As a matter of fact I'd love TWO displays side by side: one dedicated to the grid, and one for editing.
- The Mic Pre/Input.
- And ... no, that's about it.

About a year ago I posted my other wishes for the "Axe-Fx III" here.

BTW, for IR producers the Helix offers a great opportunity to expand.
Click to expand...

Good points.

I think HDMI out such you could edit from the front panel but with a kick ass video display on a monitor or tv. This is the best of both worlds, IMO. You get the new features of the firmware without waiting for AE. It doesn't require WiFi, Bluetooth, Lemur server, etc. Doesn't require development effort for PC, Mac, iOS, Android etc.

And... individual configurable displays on each footswitch of the foot controller... ala RJM (and now Helix). That is a kick ass feature.
 
Late to the party but unfortunately I don't work sitting in front of my computer all day long (that's not a dig to those that do guys just a fact)

Looks like and I stress "Looks" that Line 6 has fired the first shot in a seemingly very attractive package. I will say it does look very nice! I love the looks of the screen and the ability to label footswitches (scribble strips). The I/O section looks complete I didn't see anything they have left out with respect to that.

Commenting on the durability, In the interview one of the team members said that he Jumped on it, kicked it, Dropped it and that it was built like a tank, cool. But there was no mention as to if it will tolerate spilling liquid on it? nore was anything mentioned about the screen or it's durability. For a floor board I would think this would be number 1 on the list I mean that screen is as pretty as an iPhone but an iPhone sitting on the floor with bear all over it is not going to last very long.

The demo that was posted a few pages back sounds good cant wait to hear more real world demos.
 
soon said:
I predict the AXE 3 will come out before the end of the year, most likely in Oct/Nov to spark Christmas sales
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Are you kidding?!... How long did it take them to produce just an expression pedal and bring it to market? There is no way you are going to see an Axe Fx 3 before xmas. He stated earlier this year that he hasn't even designed it yet. You're dreaming.

Also if you so badly want a spring loaded expression pedal then get a Mission Engineering one. I did, and it kicks arse!
 
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Bottom line for me is, it's only as good as it sounds. Period. No amount of flashy cool beans consumer razzle dazzle can change that... for me at least.

The problem is, if what most consumers truly want is color screens, lcd scribble strips, multi color led rings around footswitches, etc, etc... then Cliff could be forced to devote more resources to develop all that cosmetic nonsense to compete. That threatens to steal focus away from what really matters - sound quality.

For anyone who cares most about the sound, we really have to reserve judgement until we can hear this thing.
 
Robboman said:
For anyone who cares most about the sound, we really have to reserve judgement until we can hear this thing.
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This. Actually, I'd add that the amp 'feel' is just as important as tone. Tone is why we all noticed FAS in the first place, feel is why we stayed. I've heard other units have great tone, but the feel is uninspiring...

I'm interested in the Helix, but I need to experience the tone and feel before choosing it over the AX8.
 
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