Will this ever sound good in a live band setting?

i would say tweak the high and low cuts in the cab block...but if it sounds thin already the low-cut probably wouldn't benefit you very much
 
666was999 said:
I guess that the most made and by far bigest fail when one wants a cab in the room sound is when he dails in too much highs as if it's for recordings or for for listening through studio monitors at moderate volumes. The right way is to reduce highs a bit (compared to what you'd need for recordings) and crank up the FRFR monitors, so they can fill the room without throwing out nasty highs.
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He's not using FRFR. It's about the tone through his guitar cab.
 
which is crazy, because those Port City cabs are pretty bottom heavy to begin with...
 
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stevieg said:
Interestingly, my XL+ has a fault with the 'new' screen with a vertical and a horizontal line visible, but this should not be an indication of anything else untoward...or could it be?!
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Ahem...Yes, you should be worried that the XL has taken a hit and that there is a possibility something internal may also be fouled (can you say UPS/FedEx?). And this is another reason why you absolutely should take up any offer from a forum member in your area to do a comparison with a known "working" AxeFx. There is nothing worse than spinning your wheels chasing shadows only to find out that you have something wrong with your AxeFx. It's happened to me, and was only rectified after I sent my Ultra (years ago) back to the factory to get serviced, which of course solved the problem.

one more time...IS YOUR UNIT NEW FROM THE FACTORY/AUTHORIZED SELLER, OR WAS IT PURCHASED USED?
 
stevieg said:
Hi all, thanks for all your input. Just to clarify; I am a very experienced guitarist, live sound engineer and very good technically. Yes, I am new to the Axe FX so I too thought that I may have made some mistake with some setting. All I did however was turn the cab sims off, haven't touched anything else. I have been very thorough and a 'user error' is unlikely, however I will quadruple check everything. The issue I'm having is apparent on the basic factory pre-sets (e.g.: 65 Baseguy) as well as the pre-sets I created. My rig is: Axe FX XL+, Matrix GT1000FX, Port City 2x12 with Celestion V types, multiple high quality cables, Fender American Strat, Gibson Les Paul, Bill Lawrence Tele. Tried it today with a Mesa 2:50 instead of the Matrix. Noticeable improvement but still something not right. Going to A/B my Axe over the weekend with a Mark II that my local guitar tech has. Will also do further analysis with the Matrix/Mesa. I will also do a factory reset and reinstall 18.08 just to be sure. Interestingly, my XL+ has a fault with the 'new' screen with a vertical and a horizontal line visible, but this should not be an indication of anything else untoward...or could it be?! As for posting a recording, I'll attempt to make an acceptable recording of my 'live' rig after I've done the above.

I really appreciate all of your input and helping me work through this.
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I may be misinterpreting what you're saying here but don't expect it to work well if you take a Preset that uses the Cab Block and that sounds good through FRFR speaker and simply turn the Cab Block off and run it through a power amp + guitar cabs rig.
I.e. You'll usually need to tweak that Preset extensively to sound good through the latter rig even if the IRs you're using are very similar to the real cabs you're using.

Also...
Before you give up, try a different power amp.
IMO The Matrix amps are way over hyped on this and other forums.
Their main pluses are that they are light-weight and have plenty of headroom.
I use a GT1000 myself in my live rig but mostly for the form factor.
But if you ever A/B the GT1000 with a really good ss power amp, like a Bryston, you'll be amazed at how un-artificial the Axe can really sound.
 
All,

- my unit was purchased brand new though an authorised dealer. No issues there with return if need be;

- I will be doing some more analysis/testing this weekend so will post my findings/thoughts after that. Sorry if I am not responding to all posts quickly enough, between work and other commitments I'm trying to solve this issue. I appreciate all your input;

- As mentioned, I A/B'd it with my Matrix vs Mesa 2:fifty - Mesa provides a noticeable improvement, (less brittle, warmer), but still less than perfect;

- Will be A/B'ing with an Axe FX II over weekend;

- I will attempt to post a recording of my unit early next week;

- As regards the presets I've created and the stock basic presets (e.g.: 65 Baseguy), these were of course tweaked as appropriate for my rig and various guitars. Tweaking presets is not the issue, the issue is the thinish/artificial sound - which no amount of tweaking will remove;

- After a gig last Saturday the sound engineer, (who I've worked with for almost 30 years), sent me the following in an email relating to my guitar sound (Strat and Les Paul):

"generally bland and lacking in dynamic breadth - if you know what I mean. You used to used to get a good guitar sound, clear/cutting, which sat right on top of the mix"
(NB: That sound he's referring to was achieved with a real Marshall JCM800 and some pedals).

(NB: All the punters I spoke to said the guitar sounded good...but remember, most punters are tone deaf!)

- I am located in Melbourne, Australia.

I will keep working on this and am determined to solve. I will know more next week. It may be that it is what it is and will therefore become an issue of a compromise between ideal tone vs versatility.

Thanks again.

PS: Can I just say, it's so great to be able to communicate with users worldwide and get different views, opinions and ideas. Thank you all.
 
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stevieg said:
All,

- my unit was purchased brand new though an authorised dealer. No issues there with return if need be;

- I will be doing some more analysis/testing this weekend so will post my findings/thoughts after that. Sorry if I am not responding to all posts quickly enough, between work and other commitments I'm trying to solve this issue. I appreciate all your input;

- As mentioned, I A/B'd it with my Matrix vs Mesa 2:fifty - Mesa provides a noticeable improvement, (less brittle, warmer), but still less than perfect;

- Will be A/B'ing with an Axe FX II over weekend;

- I will attempt to post a recording of my unit early next week;

- As regards the presets I've created and the stock basic presets (e.g.: 65 Baseguy), these were of course tweaked as appropriate for my rig and various guitars. Tweaking presets is not the issue, the issue is the thinish/artificial sound - which no amount of tweaking will remove;

- After a gig last Saturday the sound engineer, (who I've worked with for almost 30 years), sent me the following in an email relating to my guitar sound (Strat and Les Paul):

"generally bland and lacking in dynamic breadth - if you know what I mean. You used to used to get a good guitar sound, clear/cutting, which sat right on top of the mix"
(NB: That sound he's referring to was achieved with a real Marshall JCM800 and some pedals).

(NB: All the punters I spoke to said the guitar sounded good...but remember, most punters are tone deaf!)

- I am located in Melbourne, Australia.

I will keep working on this and am determined to solve. I will know more next week. It may be that it is what it is and will therefore become an issue of a compromise between ideal tone vs versatility.

Thanks again.

PS: Can I just say, it's so great to be able to communicate with users worldwide and get different views, opinions and ideas. Thank you all.
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The Mesa 2:50 will colour the signal that the Axe-FX produces.
It will colour it specifically in the way that a guitar oriented (as opposed to an audiophile oriented) tube power amp always colours the tone and will also introduce a certain amount of clipping at only 50 watts per side.
Some people like that type of colouring but most do not.
The philosophy of the Axe-FX is that all the desirable colouring and clipping that a tube power imparts on guitar tone should be simulated in the Axe's tube power amp simulation software.
The system you use to monitor the Axe should just amplify that signal w/o colouring it.

As to the rest of your experience with the Axe...
It sounds like something is off somewhere.
Most users have the exact opposite experience from you.

Even though I like the sound of my Bryton power amp more than my GT1000, the GT1000 can still be made to sound really really good with the Axe.

How much time have you spent with the Axe owner's manual?
Are you sure your I/O settings are optimal for what you're trying to achieve?
Have you spent much time with just the most basic Preset Layout possible, namely 1 Amp Block and nothing else going into your Matrix + cabs rig?
For most Amp Block amp types now the default settings sound real good.
Just adjust the Gain and the tone controls like you would on a real amp.
If they don't sound good on your monitoring system then something is either wrong with your monitoring system, or the way you have it cabled or there is something wrong in the Axe's I/O or Global settings?
Have you inadvertently moved any of the sliders on the Global EQs?
Etc. , etc.
 
i don't get it all...every sound engineer I've worked with raves about and loves what they get from the Axe. Nothing thin or artificial. Just great guitar tones. period.
 
In a live setting?

For recording I can't fault the Axe. Using it live is where it loses dynamics and realism for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
stevieg said:
In a live setting?

For recording I can't fault the Axe. Using it live is where it loses dynamics and realism for me.
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Then the problem lies in what's different between your recording setup and your live setup: amplification, speakers, outboard equipment, different routing, different mix, Fletcher-Munson, room acoustics...something is different. The Axe doesn't detect that there's a crowd and automagically switch itself into suck mode. :)

If it sounds brittle at the gig, there's a good chance that Fletcher-Munson is kicking your butt.

I've heard it from sound guys, from other musicians, and with my own ears. The Axe can slay live.
 
If it's thin, crank the bass. Easiest way is to go straight to PA and skip the guitar cab and its micing. It sounds good for the audience, and you too if you have a good stage monitor.
 
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stevieg said:
In a live setting?

For recording I can't fault the Axe. Using it live is where it loses dynamics and realism for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I find it infinitely easier to get a good satisfying tone through a power amp + guitar cabs rig than through any FRFR rig be it through studio monitors or PA monitors.
Using the Cab Block, IRs and FRFR speakers introduces all sorts of other issues into the equation that are mostly foreign to the usual things that guitar players have grown up with and have always had to deal with.
These are the things that recording engineers usually deal with, not guitar players.

The Axe through a good flat power amp with lots of headroom into a guitar cabinet that you're familiar with the sound of should sound and feel just like you're playing the amps that the Axe is simulating through that familiar sounding cab.
How many other real guitar amps have you played through your cabs?
I.e. Are you already really familiar with what those cabs sound like?
 
I think the A/B testing with the other AxeFxII will, hopefully, reveal some sort of a tangible difference here. As for "dynamics", in the amp block, there is an entire page dedicated to dynamic related parameters:

AMP block parameters - Axe-Fx II Wiki

specifically, I'd start here:

DYNAMICS


  • Dynamics processor that can be used to alter the dynamic response of the amp algorithms. When set below zero the amp compresses resulting in a smoother, less dynamic sound. When set greater than zero the amp expands resulting in a punchier, crunchier and more dynamic sound. Note that extreme values can have undesirable side-effects such as pumping and clipping.
  • Cliff's comments:
    • "Dynamics works at the input to the block. Negative values compress the input, positive values expand."

If using just the Amp Block into a SS power amp and traditional cabinet, there should be no mystery to getting realistic sounds, both in tone and dynamics. Cliff himself has historically done his own A/B tests with his Mesa cabinet and SS power amp as a way to check realism of the models. IIRC, he's also fooled some very, very qualified ears who couldn't tell which was the real head or the AxeFx & power amp modeled head going into a guitar cab.

Curious to see where this lands.
 
Where abouts in Melbourne?
Happy to check out what your hearing and compare rigs if your interested.

I had the same issue when the axefx2 first came out. I just couldnt get tones I was happy with and I returned the unit for a refund.
This time ive persisted and l couldnt be happier with how it sounds. Lets get this sorted for you!!!!!!
Cheers
Gary.
 
stevieg said:
In a live setting?

For recording I can't fault the Axe. Using it live is where it loses dynamics and realism for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

yes, in a live setting. I gig mine 2-4 nights a week in Nashville and every guy I work with loves it when I walk in the door...and I always have players/engineers/producers asking about my rig and tone after shows. So much so I've taken it to a few different studios to demo for guys.
 
Just give us a recording already. Without some recorded tone, all we can do is speculate.

And as someone else said: there have been issues with "thin" sound (or "blanket over my speakers kind of sound") after firmware updates in the past. Usually this is solved by just installing the firmware again or resetting the system parameters.

You should try that first (remember to backup your settings via fractal-bot so you don't have to re-enter them manually afterwards).
 
jlynnb1 said:
i don't get it all...every sound engineer I've worked with raves about and loves what they get from the Axe. Nothing thin or artificial. Just great guitar tones. period.
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Exact same thing here.. one guy a seasoned player and sound guy said it was the best sound he's ever heard out of his pa. My sound checks usually last about 2 seconds.
 
another example. the church i play it the sound guy used to travel and run for Usher and other big name acts in arena type tours. I talked with him before first run through and told him what he'd be getting from me (direct, line level, etc), and asked him to let me know if he needed anything from me. After rehearsal I checked in with him, he said it was one of the best, mix ready tones he's ever dealt with, and that while he has to do a lot of corrective eq for the guy that is usually there (i'm only here two weekends a month so I just fill in), who uses a big boutique board into a handwired AC30, that he found himself taking that out until my channel was totally flat. He couldn't believe it.

This is the type of reaction I always get. Never fails...
 
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