I'm Just Going to Leave This Here

AZG said:
Good point! I wish FA would switch the rows around and put buttons 1-4 on the bottom row like everyone else. I use scenes all the time and scene 1 is always my starting point and most used scene, followed by 2, 3..., probably like most people. Putting buttons 1-4 on top makes the layout awkward to get to the most used buttons. Pushing button 5 to get to scene 1 also seems awkward. If not too late maybe FA can relabel the buttons?
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Agree. Every other foot controller (including MFC-101) has the numbers starting at the bottom. It's weird that they're reversed. Hopefully that's not the final product.
 
mbrown3 said:
So, you're on a gig and have no internet and there's a problem, so you can't use your device at all. That's worse than connecting to wifi once every three days to keep the license active? Not for me.
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I don't see any mention of needing an internet connection, using an iLok or any other proposed DRM scheme except in the recent post by Vinnie.

So this argument seems moot to me. No one is advocating a DRM scheme that sucks... :) as far as I can read.
 
mbrown3 said:
So, you're on a gig and have no internet and there's a problem, so you can't use your device at all. That's worse than connecting to wifi once every three days to keep the license active? Not for me.
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Any solution that involves connecting to a computer or the Internet for continued use is a complete non-starter.
 
barhrecords said:
I don't see any mention of needing an internet connection, using an iLok or any other proposed DRM scheme except in the recent post by Vinnie.

So this argument seems moot to me. No one is advocating a DRM scheme that sucks... :) as far as I can read.
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I know, I was responding to the theoretical, and the post re: folks having trouble "activating" (or whatever) cab lab or some other product. If they are having trouble with that, it's also possible that there might be trouble with any other DRM scheme that might (again, theoretically) be included in the AX8. If you follow the discussion, it becomes clear.
 
hippietim said:
Any solution that involves connecting to a computer or the Internet for continued use is a complete non-starter.
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So you use an advanced digital processor but don't have (or are averse to using) a computer or access to the internet? That seems odd to me.
 
I only mentioned it because there was a mention of selling a stripped down version and buying add ons. I would imagine to protect these add ons that there would be some sort of authorisation. If anything happens to the unit at a gig and it needs resetting, it would be a bit of a nightmare to have to authorise anything you may be needing.
Would much rather just have the option to buy the whole unit with everything included. No problems then :)
 
vinnyburns said:
I only mentioned it because there was a mention of selling a stripped down version and buying add ons. I would imagine to protect these add ons that there would be some sort of authorisation. If anything happens to the unit at a gig and it needs resetting, it would be a bit of a nightmare to have to authorise anything you may be needing.
Would much rather just have the option to buy the whole unit with everything included. No problems then :)
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Yeah that's what I was saying too. Presumably any "pay as you go" model will have to have some kind of DRM (though, again, honor system would make me more likely to buy into it, even though I know there are many who would pirate things). And, if there has to be some kind of DRM, there are options other than just "always on internet" or "required USB dongle always connected".

I'm not advocating DRM in any way, shape, or form, nor am I saying there are any plans in this direction by FAS. Just saying that typical methods of DRM have historically been a disaster because they are either incredibly inconvenient, overly restrictive for legitimate customers, or just don't work the way they should...or all of the above. But if there was the option for a stripped down version that saves a bunch of money but required a once-every-three-days or once-a-week (or whatever) check-in to authorize, that might be worth the trade-off for some people. There are probably other options of making it work too...I'm just throwing out one situation in which I would find that trade-off worth it, personally.
 
mbrown3 said:
Yeah that's what I was saying too. Presumably any "pay as you go" model will have to have some kind of DRM (though, again, honor system would make me more likely to buy into it, even though I know there are many who would pirate things). And, if there has to be some kind of DRM, there are options other than just "always on internet" or "required USB dongle always connected".

I'm not advocating DRM in any way, shape, or form, nor am I saying there are any plans in this direction by FAS. Just saying that typical methods of DRM have historically been a disaster because they are either incredibly inconvenient, overly restrictive for legitimate customers, or just don't work the way they should...or all of the above. But if there was the option for a stripped down version that saves a bunch of money but required a once-every-three-days or once-a-week (or whatever) check-in to authorize, that might be worth the trade-off for some people. There are probably other options of making it work too...I'm just throwing out one situation in which I would find that trade-off worth it, personally.
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I really do not think you will have to go through security every 5 days or pass words to log on to your units .that's insane . If it goes pay by model .once you pay and load it I think It yours ,you may have to enter a passcode to update models and effects but not to use them . It like the digitech i stomp once you purchased a model its saved ,no further pass codes
 
Hope people don't think I am picking holes in a product that has not even been properly announced yet alone have a release date. I will be having one anyway and have told G66 to put me on the waiting list when they start one.
I think it's a great product. Will still keep my Axefx XL too.
I would just personally prefer to pay Fractal more of my money and have less hassle :)
I am sure they have weighed up all the pros and cons of what it needs to be. At the end of the day, it's a musical device that will be used at gigs and things like this need to be taken into account.
 
Randalljax said:
I really do not think you will have to go through security every 5 days or pass words to log on to your units .that's insane . If it goes pay by model .once you pay and load it I think It yours ,you may have to enter a passcode to update models and effects but not to use them . It like the digitech i stomp once you purchased a model its saved ,no further pass codes
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I agree your method would be better, but someone mentioned iLock, and that's just not how they work.
 
vinnyburns said:
Hope people don't think I am picking holes in a product that has not even been properly announced yet alone have a release date. I will be having one anyway and have told G66 to put me on the waiting list when they start one.
I think it's a great product. Will still keep my Axefx XL too.
I would just personally prefer to pay Fractal more of my money and have less hassle :)
I am sure they have weighed up all the pros and cons of what it needs to be. At the end of the day, it's a musical device that will be used at gigs and things like this need to be taken into account.
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I'm with you.

I hope they have an all in option for more $$. I would do that over the pay as you go.
 
Well I sure hope it's all the amps and cabs. Come on, Stripped down , pay later, all that.

Sorry, but it's an expensive item and it should be. No I am not rich, just trying to be logical here.

But, I do not see FAS doing all this buy your amp set, or certain popular amps (what's popular to some may be garbage to others, just sayin)

I won't go near it unless it's everything it could (should be) Start stripping it down is IMHO ridiculous Like I said-MHO.
 
mbrown3 said:
So you use an advanced digital processor but don't have (or are averse to using) a computer or access to the internet? That seems odd to me.
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Something like that would be a ridiculously cumbersome process I've spent more time with computers than you could probably imagine- I've been a professional software developer for close to 30 years so I'm very handy with a computer and I've got a lot of them. I've been using an Axe-FX since the Ultra was released. The only time I hook up the Axe to a computer is to update the firmware or to add IRs (and those are rare events).There is no need for me to have a computer hooked up to the Axe - I'm perfectly comfortable with the front panel. If I had to hook up my rig to a computer periodically just to be allowed to continue to use it I wouldn't even consider it.

Lots of music players worked this way with DRM and it was a dismal failure because people didnt really see a reason to connect their player to a computer when they weren't adding/removing songs. I imagine a lot money was lost by companies in support calls over this. It's ok on phones since they have connectivity most of the time and there's no need to connect to a computer.

I'll bet you a dollar that Cliff never seriously considered a periodic connect-to-keep using-it scheme.
 
hippietim said:
Something like that would be a ridiculously cumbersome process I've spent more time with computers than you could probably imagine- I've been a professional software developer for close to 30 years so I'm very handy with a computer and I've got a lot of them. I've been using an Axe-FX since the Ultra was released. The only time I hook up the Axe to a computer is to update the firmware or to add IRs (and those are rare events).There is no need for me to have a computer hooked up to the Axe - I'm perfectly comfortable with the front panel. If I had to hook up my rig to a computer periodically just to be allowed to continue to use it I wouldn't even consider it.

Lots of music players worked this way with DRM and it was a dismal failure because people didnt really see a reason to connect their player to a computer when they weren't adding/removing songs. I imagine a lot money was lost by companies in support calls over this. It's ok on phones since they have connectivity most of the time and there's no need to connect to a computer.

I'll bet you a dollar that Cliff never seriously considered a periodic connect-to-keep using-it scheme.
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My reply was in response to iLock, who use a USB dongle. That's what has to be connected to the internet (in some cases), not the Axe itself.
 
mbrown3 said:
So you use an advanced digital processor but don't have (or are averse to using) a computer or access to the internet? That seems odd to me.
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I bought a house, relatively new construction a few years ago in a 'close to metro' area.
Big huge major shopping center just a few minutes down the road.
Guy from AT&T stops by at one point while I'm here to let me know that Uverse is coming 'soon'.

Turns out, I'm in a dead zone as far as internet access is concerned.
AT&T DOES offer DSL/Uverse here, but it's a very few number of slots and you've got to get very lucky and manage to score a slot in between someone moving/canceling service and someone else jumping on it first.

Bright House flat-out refused to run cable from the main road to my house, 'sorry, we just don't have plans to run it there'. It's a couple hundred feet off the main road, hardly an excursion.

A beautiful ridge with a fantastic treeline blocks access to the part of the sky required for satellite service.

I'm also in in a near-perfectly dead spot as far as cell service, from ALL the 4 major providers.

So, my option for internet service is an obscenely overpriced plan from Verizon using one of their wifi hotspots, with an external antenna on an extension about 40' in the air.
I'm very very careful to turn it on only as needed because the overage charges are extremely high and they mount up QUICKLY.
I loved this place when I first moved in, but now, due to the utter lack of connectivity, I f'ing HATE it, to the point of near depression.

So yeah, even though I realize I'm probably an outlier, there ARE those of us for whom having to have a reliable and/or dedicated internet connection would be prohibitive.
 
EvilPhish said:
So yeah, even though I realize I'm probably an outlier, there ARE those of us for whom having to have a reliable and/or dedicated internet connection would be prohibitive.
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Again, I'm not advocating an internet-connected method; just identifying that it's one way DRM is done.
 
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