Axe FX II and Kemper Profiler (Yes, another one...please read!)

Do you really care if your modeller sounds 100% like the real amp being modeled?

No. I didn't say it was positive or negative...just highlighting that this is how each amp differs from the other. Both are valid approaches, for different uses.

But obsessing over those 3 or 4 real amps and that one sound that each of them gets sounds really limiting to me.

Except in my 3-4 real amps, I have a TON of usable tones. The Road King has four channels, each with three sub-"flavors" (clean, tweed, heavy), plus it uses both 6L6 and EL34 tubes that can be combined in any combination. The MOD50 has the ability to swap modules created from the original amp's circuits. I have numerous modules, each with two channels. The amp can easily swap tube types from 6L6 to EL34 as well. I have multiple cabs that I can use as well. The Rebel-30 has the option to mix 6V6 and EL84 tubes at will. So those 3-4 amps have hundreds of usable sounds. Being able to capture each of them and replicate my existing rig as close as possible is appealing.

Whether I want to take the time to do that for each tonal variation, OTOH, is another question entirely.
 
So those 3-4 amps have hundreds of usable sounds. Being able to capture each of them and replicate my existing rig as close as possible is appealing.

The closest thing to this you can get is with the Axe. With the Kemper you'd need to capture hundreds of profiles with all the settings you'd ever want to use, and you still might not be able to get everything to be as good as it's in real life. The Axe has 200 amp models now, has basically every kind of tone and with deep tweaking there's nothing in the tone world that it couldn't do. And it still has tone matching which is almost like a Profiler, only that you still have realistic and authentic tweaking options.
 
Just my POV...

Part of why I got the Axe FX is for the edit software. I really like being able to loop a riff in my DAW and then sit in the best listening position possible and tweak via my laptop with a long USB cable. This lets me hear things without a guitar in my hand and really dig into things like tone stack swapping, gain staging, compression, ect. Plus, in studio situations I LOVE being able to say to the guitar player, "lets grab my laptop and basically build your dream rig, from the bottom up!" I spend an hour or so with the guitar player letting them try different things and it really allows them to loosen up and feel like they are part of finding their tone rather than running back an forth changing mic positions or cabs/amps. I have found that it REALLY helps with keeping the flow going. You can do something similar with the Kemper, but it will never have the same amount of flexibility.

Kemper = a snapshot in time of a particular amp and cab, with minimal tweakablity afterward.
AFX2 = the amp and cab separate, totally customizable and tweakable (even more so than the real amp), with the same if not better quality in amp modelling.

Don't be put off by the flexibility either. With the software editor, its super straight forward, especially if you only want to do a basic amp/cab combo. Two blocks and you're done, BUT the places you can go from their are really endless. Rather than the Kemper which sort of leaves you in a situation where if you want to tweak something you have to add other devices or re-mic and re-clone the same setup.

Plus, this forum is a WEALTH of info! By getting the AFX your part of the community here, which is SUPER beneficial! Guys here share patches for FREE!
 
No. I didn't say it was positive or negative...just highlighting that this is how each amp differs from the other. Both are valid approaches, for different uses.



Except in my 3-4 real amps, I have a TON of usable tones. The Road King has four channels, each with three sub-"flavors" (clean, tweed, heavy), plus it uses both 6L6 and EL34 tubes that can be combined in any combination. The MOD50 has the ability to swap modules created from the original amp's circuits. I have numerous modules, each with two channels. The amp can easily swap tube types from 6L6 to EL34 as well. I have multiple cabs that I can use as well. The Rebel-30 has the option to mix 6V6 and EL84 tubes at will. So those 3-4 amps have hundreds of usable sounds. Being able to capture each of them and replicate my existing rig as close as possible is appealing.

Whether I want to take the time to do that for each tonal variation, OTOH, is another question entirely.

Exactly!
So either you're missing my point that a single Axe amp sim can have its virtual knobs set in all sorts of configurations that very closely mimic the sound of the same knob positions on the real amp or you're looking at this from a different perspective that I have yet to grok.

I don't believe an actual Road King has been modeled yet by Cliff.
But I do think I've seen him say that the RK clean channel is basically a bf type of circuit and there are all sorts of bf preamps represented on the Axe's amp sims, including some from Mesa.
I don't know that much about the RK gainy sounds but are they really all that disimilar from those found in a MKII C+ or a MKIV or a Rectifier or a Triaxis, all of which currently do reside inside the Axe?
And if you really need to do things like change the default power tubes within an amp sim the Axe has ways of doing that too.
Not to mention mimicking a Variac and all sorts of other power amp mods.

So again, if you really need to come that close to 100% replicating each individual sound you use with that particular rig then the Kemper might be your best option.
But that's going to involve many many hours of you profiling those tones yourself.
As for me, I'm lazy.
I let Cliff design my amps for me.
I just turn the knobs until they sound the way I need them to.
There's only one of the Advanced amp Parameters that I ever touch routinely and that's the Low freq Resonance which I set to match the real cabs I'm using across all the amp sims I use.
I wish there was a Global LF Res parameter on the Global Pages and then I wouldn't even have to do that.
The point being that I'm able to get whatever I need just by adjusting the Gain/Vol/MV and Tone/Pres controls, just like I'd do on a real amp.
If I ever need a tone that can't be gotten that way then I do have the tools within the Axe to do that too.
The Axe's amp sims, as close as they are to real world amps, can be treated as just starting points from which you can pretty much do anything that can be done with guitar amplification.
Usually I don't have time for any of that shit though.
I just need 5 basic amp tones (set as Global Amps) for what *I* usually find myself doing: Clean Bright, Med-Gain, Hi-Gain, Bluesy-Gain, Dark Clean (for jazz).
I actually have 10 Global Amps though because I have those 5 amp tones dialed in both for my Strat and for my humbucker equipped guitars.
If you're a session heavy-weight and you're paid huge bucks to replicate this or that classic well-known tone then you're pretty much obligated to own all those real amps and to pay cartage to get them to the sessions.
But for the rest of us working stiffs who just have to sound good, and/or like ourselves, the Axe does just fine.
 
I don't believe an actual Road King has been modeled yet by Cliff.
But I do think I've seen him say that the RK clean channel is basically a bf type of circuit and there are all sorts of bf preamps represented on the Axe's amp sims, including some from Mesa.
I don't know that much about the RK gainy sounds but are they really all that disimilar from those found in a MKII C+ or a MKIV or a Rectifier or a Triaxis, all of which currently do reside inside the Axe?

Yeah, as far as I know the RKII clean = Lonestar clean, the gain sounds are Rectifier tones, and you can also get the EL34 tones with selecting EL34 at the power section AND! you could also set up two amps, one with 6L6s and the other with EL34s... so there you have it, you can nail an RK 100%.
 
I was in the same boat 7 months ago, one thing I did was download and read both manuals, after doing that I found the Axe fx with the axe edit was much simpler to use than the Kemper. Using the axe fx front panel is not hard either once you get it done it's very intuitive. Also as shown in a video on YouTube the boot time on the axe fx is a lot less. I had a triaxis rig, then downsized to a mark v. I was completely satisfied until I had some health problems and couldn't deal with the weight of my traditional rig that's when I tried my buddies axe fx and was blown away by the mesa settings Cliff knows what Mesa's sound like and I'm completely satisfied with my decision to get the axe fx.
 
Exactly!
So either you're missing my point that a single Axe amp sim can have its virtual knobs set in all sorts of configurations that very closely mimic the sound of the same knob positions on the real amp or you're looking at this from a different perspective that I have yet to grok.

I guess I don't understand your point. I mean, I already know that an Axe amp sim can have settings changed however you want, and that it mimics the sounds of the amp. I also know that the Kemper takes more of a snapshot in time. That's the main difference between the products. But...so what?

I don't believe an actual Road King has been modeled yet by Cliff.
But I do think I've seen him say that the RK clean channel is basically a bf type of circuit and there are all sorts of bf preamps represented on the Axe's amp sims, including some from Mesa.

The clean channel is actually the same circuit from the Lonestar (the best clean Mesa has ever put out, IMO).

I don't know that much about the RK gainy sounds but are they really all that disimilar from those found in a MKII C+ or a MKIV or a Rectifier or a Triaxis, all of which currently do reside inside the Axe?

Nope, all are very similar. What sets the RK apart is that it can use 6L6 tubes, EL34s, or both at once.
 
This thread has become pointless, there is nothing more anyone can tell you, words cannot possibly be used to reliably compare features, amps , sounds or how you can use it.


You need to either
- go somewhere that has both, so you can sample them both
- lash out and buy one, resell it if you don't like it
- Or go and practice some guitar until you have decided either way
 
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This thread has become pointless, there is nothing more anyone can tell you, words cannot possible be used to reliably compare features, amps , sounds or how you can use it.


You need to either
- go somewhere that has both, so you can sample them both
- lash out and buy one, resell it if you don't like it
- Or go and practice some guitar until you have decided either way

Thanks for the helpful advice. I'll take it, two days ago.
 
I guess I don't understand your point. I mean, I already know that an Axe amp sim can have settings changed however you want, and that it mimics the sounds of the amp. I also know that the Kemper takes more of a snapshot in time. That's the main difference between the products. But...so what?

My bad then.
It wasn't clear to me from the posts of yours that I've red that you did understand that or how many profiles you'll need to shoot of your RK rig in order to get the tones you're getting now.

Carry on....
 
This thread has become pointless, there is nothing more anyone can tell you, words cannot possible be used to reliably compare features, amps , sounds or how you can use it.


You need to either
- go somewhere that has both, so you can sample them both
- lash out and buy one, resell it if you don't like it
- Or go and practice some guitar until you have decided either way


You missed option 4. Have a manufacturer send you their product at their expense so you can return it, predetermined. The manufacturer gets both to eat the shipping and deal with a returned unit. Dream customer.
 
You missed option 4. Have a manufacturer send you their product at their expense so you can return it, predetermined. The manufacturer gets both to eat the shipping and deal with a returned unit. Dream customer.

Why would anyone do this? You really seem to have an axe to grind with the shipping issue. Everyone else seems to have gotten over it. You're still making childish snipes about it, without even really understanding the issue.

Are you representative of the whole Axe-FX community?

Eh, why bother. Ignored.
 
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Why would anyone do this? You really seem to have an axe to grind with the shipping issue. Everyone else seems to have gotten over it. You're still making childish snipes about it, without even really understanding the issue.

Are you representative of the whole Axe-FX community?

Eh, why bother. Ignored.

Mr. Brown. It seems like your gear dilemma is becoming way more complicated than it needs to be.

If you want something that sounds decent and is EASY to dial in, get a Kemper. It might be fine for your needs. Some guys just want a basic snapshot to play around with, and don't want to mess with building their signal chain.

If you want your unit to act like an amp and don't mind twisting a few (digital) knobs, the Axe FX is more realistic. It's more of a full-blown customizable rig. Make it as simplistic or complex as you want. But the benefit is that the amps go beyond a snapshot, and you're able to route your chain however you want.

For what it's worth. I had a session two weeks ago with a Kemper-enthusiast producer. He asked if I wanted to use his profiles... I told him I'd like to try a take with my Axe first. He put me in red, I took my first pass, and he grabbed his phone and said "Siri, make a note to sell the Kemper." After hearing my tones and seeing me recall and tweak patches on the fly, he realized that he bought the wrong unit.

Also, I have the great fortune to know and work with some amazing guitar techs who's resumes span a very impressive roster of artists (I'll spare the name-dropping). The short of it is that of the four high-end techs, three had other gigs with fellow Fractal artists, and only one guy had a Kemper artist..which he wasn't very pleased with. All that to say, from what I've personally seen, more pros end up with Fractals. It might cost more, but you get what you pay for.




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Wow, relax...

He bought a Kemper and I'm going to get together with him with my AxeII/CLR rig so he can play both side-by-side. I'm sure if he likes the Axe better the shipping cost will become a non-issue. I'll post follow up comments after the comparison and I'm sure the OP will too.

I have never played a Kemper so it should be fun. And isn't having fun making music what it's really about regardless of the tools we choose to accomplish that task?
 
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