Red Sound Elis8 FRFR Review and MF 10 Comparision

dsouza said:
I prefer keeping my output knobs on the AX8 at MAX (recommended in ax8 manual especially for those who record) and setting the volume on my Eli’s 8’s lower. Also if I set the volume a bit too high on the Elis 8’s I can always reduce the volume knob on my guitar.

Do you see any problems with this strategy?
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@Anthony76 is giving you the correct advice.
The Elis8 manual advises to have the volume at “8” which is 3 o clock.
Use the Fractal to control output volume.

Using the volume on your guitar is definitely the wrong method because this will change your tone. Depending on the amp model you use, rolling back volume will clean up the amp (from overdriven to clean).
 
Jeronimo said:
@Anthony76 is giving you the correct advice.
The Elis8 manual advises to have the volume at “8” which is 3 o clock.
Use the Fractal to control output volume.

Using the volume on your guitar is definitely the wrong method because this will change your tone. Depending on the amp model you use, rolling back volume will clean up the amp (from overdriven to clean).
Click to expand...

Yes this strategy works but the AX8 manual says the sound coming out of the AX8 when recording is best captured when the output volume knob is at max. This is NOT true on the FM3 etc.

Since I do lot of recording if I set the volume knob lower and my Elis 8's at 3 pm I would always have to change the output volume knob on my AX8 everytime I record and then back. Forgetting to do so would result in either jarringly loud volumes from the ELis 8's in my condo when using them, or a poor recording from my AX8 when captured DIRECT into my Scarlet 2i2.

I will test out the elis 8 volume at 3 pm or level 8 and reduce the volume output knob on my AX8 and see what happens. What benefit would I achieve with this? Is there an supposed to be a drastic improvement in sound etc?

This is a nice strategy when performing, you always have high volume on the ELis 8 at level 8 and you can dial it down with the AX8 depending on the size of the venue and size of the audience. Much easier than fiddling with the volume knobs at the back of the unit constantly at the venue to get the right volume. I prefer leaving the ELi's at 8 and forgetting about adjusting them forever after that point.
 
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dsouza said:
Yes this strategy works but the AX8 manual says the sound coming out of the AX8 when recording is best captured when the output volume knob is at max. This is NOT true on the FM3 etc.

Since I do lot of recording if I set the volume knob lower and my Elis 8's at 3 pm I would always have to change the output volume knob on my AX8. Forgetting to do so would result in either jarringly loud volumes from the ELis 8's or a poor recording from my AX8 when captured DIRECT.

I agree if I wasn't into recording it would be a no brainer.

I will test out the elis 8 volume at 3 pm or level 8 and reduce the volume output knob on my AX8 and see what happens. What benefit would I achieve with this? Is there an supposed to be a drastic improvement in sound etc? Let me know.
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I thought you were using a Scarlet interface for recording? That would allow you to control the monitor volume to your Elis8 and keep the volume from the AX8 high.
For a gig you can just connect the Elis8 to your AX8 directly.
 
dsouza said:
I prefer keeping my output knobs on the AX8 at MAX (recommended in ax8 manual especially for those who record) and setting the volume on my Eli’s 8’s lower. Also if I set the volume a bit too high on the Elis 8’s I can always reduce the volume knob on my guitar.

Do you see any problems with this strategy?
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Yes. If you reduce your guitar volume just for level control, you’ll reduce gain on higher gain sounds.

The AX8 output knob is a volume control. You’re allowed to run it below maximum and it will still sound good. The manual says to run it as high as possible, not to always have it all the way up, otherwise why would it be adjustable?

At most gigs I’ll start the AX8 around 10 o clock or so, turn up the speaker for the level I need, then use the AX8 volume as needed. This is very standard.

If you start with it all the way up, you need to go to the speaker if you need more volume. That’s usually always harder to reach than the AX8 right in front of you.

Your method can work but is less convinient with no real advantage. The noise floor of the AX8 is very low meaning you can have the volume knob lower than all the way up with no issues.
 
dsouza said:
Yes this strategy works but the AX8 manual says the sound coming out of the AX8 when recording is best captured when the output volume knob is at max. This is NOT true on the FM3 etc.

Since I do lot of recording if I set the volume knob lower and my Elis 8's at 3 pm I would always have to change the output volume knob on my AX8 everytime I record and then back. Forgetting to do so would result in either jarringly loud volumes from the ELis 8's in my condo when using them, or a poor recording from my AX8 when captured DIRECT into my Scarlet 2i2.

I will test out the elis 8 volume at 3 pm or level 8 and reduce the volume output knob on my AX8 and see what happens. What benefit would I achieve with this? Is there an supposed to be a drastic improvement in sound etc?

This is a nice strategy when performing, you always have high volume on the ELis 8 at level 8 and you can dial it down with the AX8 depending on the size of the venue and size of the audience. Much easier than fiddling with the volume knobs at the back of the unit constantly at the venue to get the right volume. I prefer leaving the ELi's at 8 and forgetting about adjusting them forever after that point.
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I set it at 8 simply b/c the manual recommends it. Then control volume with output knob on fx3.
 
chris said:
Yes. If you reduce your guitar volume just for level control, you’ll reduce gain on higher gain sounds.

At most gigs I’ll start the AX8 around 10 o clock or so, turn up the speaker for the level I need, then use the AX8 volume as needed. This is very standard.
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I turned the vol on my active Elis 8 to 8 (3 pm) and it works fine. In my small studio (which is like a small-mid sized bedroom) I have the AX8 output 1 knob on 8 am or so and it sounds great!

Just curious you mentioned you start gigs at vol 10 oclock on the AX8, do you increase the vol gradually as the night is progressing, until when people are screaming, dancing, and wasted the vol is up at max?
 
dsouza said:
I turned the vol on my active Elis 8 to 8 (3 pm) and it works fine. In my small studio (which is like a small-mid sized bedroom) I have the AX8 output 1 knob on 8 am or so and it sounds great!

Just curious you mentioned you start gigs at vol 10 oclock on the AX8, do you increase the vol gradually as the night is progressing, until when people are screaming, dancing, and wasted the vol is up at max?
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I try not to increase my volume at all. The headroom on the knob is in case I have to.
 
@chris
@DallasGlenn2005
@Jeronimo

Encountering a problem since I bumped the RS ELis 8 Active volume up to 8 in my little studio.

I run the AX8 output 1 knob at only 8 am or so and I notice I can't run it higher cause it would be too loud in my studio , however, my AX8 and Eli's 8's sound too base now.

My wife described it best, suddenly your presets suddenly sound like death. Like they're dying. Like there's no life to them. The audience won't like it. Funny thing is they are custom presets designed by the pros! There's nothing wrong with them.

I think I know what's happening, the RS Elis 8 is set to vol 8 and in my little studio the AX8 ouput 1 set to 8 am is not bringing out the highs as much. I get too much low end.

Any advice, comments? You say it sounds better. For me personally it's too much low end... Especially when I play G&R!
 
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dsouza said:
Encountering a problem since I bumped the RD ELis 8 Active volume up to 8 in my little studio.

I run the AX8 output 1 knob at only 8 am or so and I notice I can't run it higher cause it is loud enough but my AX8 and Eli's 8's sound too base now.

My wife described it best, suddenly your presets sound like death. Like they're dying. Like there's no life to them. The audience won't like it.

I think I know what's happening, the RS Elis 8 is set to vol 8 and in my little studio the AX8 ouput 1 set to 8 am is not bringing out the highs as much. I get too much low end.

Maybe it is best sounding on vol 8 in a gig environment where I'll bump up the AX8 output 1 knob considerably?

But in my studio I am finding that not to be the case?

If not, what is it that's suddenly causing the difference in tone with my presets?
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Just turn the speaker down slightly and turn the ax8 up slightly.

You’ll have to find your own best settings. maybe 12 o clock on the speaker is a good starting point, which allows you to turn the ax8 up more.
 
chris said:
Just turn the speaker down slightly and turn the ax8 up slightly.

You’ll have to find your own best settings. maybe 12 o clock on the speaker is a good starting point, which allows you to turn the ax8 up more.
Click to expand...

I'll try it out and report back.
 
dsouza said:
I think I know what's happening, the RS Elis 8 is set to vol 8 and in my little studio the AX8 ouput 1 set to 8 am is not bringing out the highs as much. I get too much low end.

Any advice, comments? You say it sounds better. For me personally it's too much low end... Especially when I play G&R!
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Nope, AX8 and Eli's volume does not change tone.
Could be FM, or you are clipping the Eli's input stage. Try lowering the bass, play with the band and see if it works.
Do any tone/gain adjustament at gigging level.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
Is the monitoring volume causing the strings of the guitar to shake/vibrate? If so, the guitar will put out more lows and mids.

The fix is to move away from the speakers or turn down the volume.

See https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/the-modelers-dont-clean-up-with-the-volume-knob-myth.154557/
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If I just hit the back of the guitar (which I have it on me via a strap) with my body it will send off a huge slew of feedback from the RS's. This is only with some presets. I don't know if this is due to the level of gain, or something to do with the presets or it has to do with the RS vol. But I did a test today I tried the RS Elis 8 at Vol 8, 5, 4, and 2 .. And had my AX8 output one knob turned up anywhere from 8 am to 5 pm and the result was the same... Too much feedback from even the slightest touches of the strings.

The strings don't necessarily vibrate but it's fuzzy. It happens only with very hard rock or metal presets.
 
dsouza said:
If I just hit the back of the guitar (which I have it on me via a strap) with my body it will send off a huge slew of feedback from the RS's. This is only with some presets. I don't know if this is due to the level of gain, or something to do with the presets or it has to do with the RS vol. But I did a test today I tried the RS Elis 8 at Vol 8, 5, 4, and 2 .. And had my AX8 output one knob turned up anywhere from 8 am to 5 pm and the result was the same... Too much feedback from even the slightest touches of the strings.

The strings don't necessarily vibrate but it's fuzzy. It happens only with very hard rock or metal presets.
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Did you read Cliff’s Tech Note?

You probably have too much gain.
 
dsouza said:
Yeah I figured. I'm using a custom preset. It's that damn Brit 800 #34 amp model. No drive models are used. What would you alter? Lowering the input drive on the amp or the db level or both?
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Turn down the gain first. That will reduce the fatness and lessen the chance of feedback.

Whenever you are adjusting the amp block, especially its EQ or gain, make sure you are at a realistic stage volume. That helps you hear the effect of the volume on the guitar, and it helps negate the Fletcher-Munson effect. I try to do that before I add anything else to the layout. Once that sound is correct leave it alone, and then begin adding the other blocks. You can even reduce the volume to something quieter just don’t adjust the EQ.

When auditioning presets, especially the factory ones, it’s important to be at stage volume too. The crunch and edge of breakup sounds will sing once the volume reaches a certain point. My favorite preset uses an edge of breakup Blackface Deluxe and it sings.
 
dsouza said:
Yeah I figured. I'm using a custom preset. It's that damn Brit 800 #34 amp model. No drive models are used. What would you alter? Lowering the input drive on the amp or the db level or both?
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If it’s too loud: reduce the volume
If there is too much gain: reduce the gain in the amp block

And your playing technique is also a part of the equation, when playing high gain amps, it is important to dampen the strings that you are not playing to avoid a noisy mess
 
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@dsouza
Keep in mind that the Elis8 is not a studio Monitor, it’s developed for live sound, rehearsals etc.

Don’t put them (or any cabinet/monitor in the corners of your room, because that will produce to much low end.

Use a IR with less bass.

Please post a preset and. I will check that with my Elis8.
 
@Sashman
@Jeronimo
@Greg Ferguson

The custom preset creator told me single coils are my problem with the G&R sound. Single coils for eg. on a strat produce feedback and squeal.

I can't post custom presets. There is no drive model. Only amp and cab...

The easiest solution he said is to play Slash on a Les Paul. You need the proper sustain. The strat can't produce that sweet sustain sound of the Les Paul as effectively, even with the great AX8 presets dialed in.

Kinda common sense.

I tried turning the amp's DB output volume down a lot and the Input gain amount down a lot but it didn't help much. Still feedback and squeal.

Also it's not 60 cycle hum. Even on PU position 2 and 4 I get some white noise from the speakers which is due to the 800 #34 amp model he uses to create Slash's sound.

I may just buy me a Les Paul next. Looking into either a NEW Tribute (I think these used to be called Studio) or a USED Standard. Roughly, the same cost. Which would you buy?
 
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dsouza said:
@Sashman
@Jeronimo
@Greg Ferguson

The custom preset creator told me single coils are my problem with the G&R sound. Single coils for eg. on a strat produce feedback and squeal.

I can't post custom presets. There is no drive model. Only amp and cab...

The easiest solution he said is to play Slash on a Les Paul. You need the proper sustain. The strat can't produce that sweet sustain sound of the Les Paul as effectively, even with the great AX8 presets dialed in.

Kinda common sense.

I tried turning the amp's DB output volume down a lot and the Input gain amount down a lot but it didn't help much. Still feedback and squeal.

Also it's not 60 cycle hum. Even on PU position 2 and 4 I get some white noise from the speakers which is due to the 800 #34 amp model he uses to create Slash's sound.

I may just buy me a Les Paul next. Looking into either a NEW Tribute (I think these used to be called Studio) or a USED Standard. Roughly, the same cost. Which would you buy?
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I didn’t notice you are using a single coil guitar.
You can put a singlecoil sized humbucker in a Strat.
I did many professional jobs with a Strat like that.

I can’t say anything to Les Pauls because I’m a Strat guy and I only play Music Man Guitars today.
But with every Guitar, don’t buy them unplayed online, go to a store and try every brand.
That’s what brought my to Music Man, I went to a store to buy a Les Paul and I left the Store with a Music Man Axis, because to me, it was by far the best guitar in the store.
 
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