Your top 5 tweak tips to get that killer sound out of the Axe Fx 2

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echo44

Inspired
Well my Atomic CLR arrived here today. Started A/B my real vintage princeton with the axe/CLR. I am surprised how close
I got! I just adjusted the tone controls and input gain in the amp block. A real credit to Cliff and Atomic Amps. Now don't get me wrong I am no where close to giving up my tube amp fetish. That being said I am very excited how much better my axe fx II sounds with ver 11.03 and my new CLR. I still think I can get much better sound out of the digital realm if I knew how to tweak some advanced parameters other than tone control and drive. So I was just seeing if the experts will weigh in giving their 5 secret or top tips that can dramatically improve the sound closing the gap with a tube amp.
 
Dont get overwhelmed/frustrated by all the knobs and buttons. use your ears to tweak.
Test advanced parameters and see what they do and what effect on the sound they have. I dont really understand half of the advanced parameters but learning which of them that affects the sound in a way that I like.
Download others presets works good to learn how others tweak and route their blocks, but rarely sound good straight away since setup, amp, guitar etc have impact on the sound.

For a really good overview of all amp and cab parameters our forum friend JMA did an excellent work on this guide, download here
http://olongjohnson.xp3.biz/_assets/Amp_&_Cab_Quick_Reference.pdf

not really any magic top tips but hope it helps
 
No idea what level you consider your playing to be at...just throwing it out there: your hands, technique, approach to the instrument...do not underestimate their value in creating and altering tone. IT ALL STARTS THERE.

Put your rig in the hands of a true "player's player" (no slight to your abilities...don't know what they are), and see what it sounds like. Same gear, different players = different sound, different tone and feel....some better (subjectively) than others. JMHO
 
jimfist said:
No idea what level you consider your playing to be at...just throwing it out there: your hands, technique, approach to the instrument...do not underestimate their value in creating and altering tone. IT ALL STARTS THERE.

Put your rig in the hands of a true "player's player" (no slight to your abilities...don't know what they are), and see what it sounds like. Same gear, different players = different sound, different tone and feel....some better (subjectively) than others. JMHO
Click to expand...

well personally I consider myself a decent player not amazing, I have been playing for 30 years. I am surprised nobody is staying on focus here?
The question is very specific. I consider learning about getting your tone has numerous stages. When I was a newbee player I wanted tone to match my guitar heroes. Than as I got more proficient I realized tone is in the bone. Now I have my own sound and style. I play 95% of the time with no effects
that all being said and my fellow pro musicians will concur great tone arising from your amplification device can spur creativity.
"put your rig in true players hand" I ' am not sure what you consider a true player? Personally I play as a side job playing out the occasional weekend, and get that magical sound out of tube amps with out any problem. ( as often on this site when someone has difficulty in getting great tone or the tone they are looking for they blame the user)
I get where your coming from kind of like the dude that drops in the guitar store and says " I want that David Gilmour sound" I learned about 25 years ago
the trick to Davids sound is being David. That being said no matter what level your at there is always someone better to learn from. For me its my best friend who is a full time pro musician who plays in a band that tours at the arena level. When he comes over my jaw drops everything coming out of his fingers is so musical. When he plays my Axe FX 2 it still sounds like it can use some tweaking.
Now why is it people change the subject? What I am looking for is some advice from more experienced Axe Fx tweakers what advanced parameters
they tend to alter on their patches most often to get their sound closer to the real thing. Example: the other day I was playing one of my tele's that
sounded so so compared to my other tele's . A friend recommended that I change the tone cap from .05 uF to .022uF that did the trick. Those are the type of tips I was looking for when I originally made this post.
 
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Great question Echo. I would love to hear some thoughts here as well. There is so much talk about the need to tweak presets to get that killer sound. I'm really frustrated with this because, while I think the presets sound good, every time I start tweaking - the preset sounds worse and I end up trashing it and going back to the stock preset. Now, again, the preset sounds really good but, if there is another level out there, I don't know how to find it. Any advice such as: "Ok, the first 5 buttons you adjust are...." or something like that?
 
For me the most frequent parameter changes are:

1. Pick attack
2. Definition
3. Presence
4. Low cut before amp block
5. X/y states on parametric eq for fattening up solos.

My thing is always trying to find a sound that is lively without being overly bright. And with lots of string sensitivity.

I personally feel like the presets are to dark for me, even with my mayones, which is BRIGHT. But I am always going direct into protools, for live or with frfr that darkness would be beneficial due to the additional volume.
 
I get more expression when I make my presets louder and brighter than what I want and use the guitar volume and tone controls to ride the gain and brightness.

To me, this makes the preset very dynamic and musically expressive to play.

I also frequently attach modifiers controlled by envelope to add some movement to the preset.
 
echo44 said:
What I am looking for is some advice from more experienced Axe Fx tweakers what advanced parameters
they tend to alter on their patches most often to get their sound closer to the real thing.
Click to expand...
There are some tweaks I use to get a sound closer to what I like, but nothing I do to get it closer to the real thing (never felt the need).

I like Pick Attack, Definition, Dynamic Presence, and Xfmr Match.
 
Far from an expert... but I've been playing for a long time so I'll put down my few thoughts.

1. I have my CLR's mounted on PA poles and I set them to the FF setting- works better for me than setting them on the ground or using the other two EQ settings. I still struggle with making things work when playing in a room at home. I like to play up around 95-100 db and that's asking for trouble in small- medium size room that's untreated, etc. I like to do any critical dialing in the living area where it's big and open. Descent sounding room actually. I agree with anyone saying you need some volume to get good sound.. at least for most genre's of music.

2. Match the guitar to a preset- my '58 Les Paul Special sounds very different into the same preset that I built around my RI '58 Les Paul. Dramatically different.. so I build presets for a specific guitar.

3. IR's.. I pick an amp block, leave it at default settings and start flipping through IR's till I find something I like with a given guitar. My Nocaster works really well with the Altec speaker in the latest OH vintage set, with various amps. I find new combinations all the time though. I highly recommend the new OH IR's.. I then adjust the B/M/T/P to taste.. and finally, apply any low or high pass as needed. Usually a high pass to trim some lows..

4. I have some nice vintage amps, including a great BF Princeton Reverb like you mentioned. I no longer try to compare them to the Axe II when dialing things in. It tends to throw me off, so I just work at dialing in a good sound, whatever it is I'm going for. That usually leads me to an unexpected combination, often different than what I was aiming for, that sounds right. It helped me to not worry about what I was doing with my analog gear and just start from scratch with the Axe, although a lot of the same.

5. I tend to not mess with the advanced parameters as much these days. The amps seem to be pretty in the zone as they are. I do mess with Xfmr Match depending on the amp. I'm fairly simple in my approach though and have little knowledge or background with audio engineering, which is helpful with this piece of gear. Some knowledge of amp circuits helps as well, which I have little of. Still works for me quite well though..
 
1. Select basic cabinet type
2. Select basic amp type

If you get 1&2 right, you'll only need basic amp controls 90% of the time.
If you're down the rabbit hole with confusing results, you probably didn't get 1 & 2 right.

3. Adjust gain to sound and feel right and adjust B M T to shape basic tone
4. Refine the basic gain and tone using same controls in step 3

That's 90% of getting the "killer sound" right there.

10% of the time I need to do more so I move on to "step 5", usually in this order, but ONLY what needs to be adjusted.

5. One or more of anything below

  • Input trim
  • Presence/Depth and/or Thunk/Definition
  • Compression and/or damp then dynamics, then if needed, sag
  • Dynamic presence/depth and/or pick attack
  • I always turn up speaker drive a bit
  • Sometimes I adjust graphic eq before/after presence/definition/thunk/depth
  • If needed I'll turn to cabinet motor drive and proximity and room controls if controls above don't quite get me there.
  • If I'm so damn close and only something like triode hardness or transformer match will get that last bit, I'll do it, but it's rare.
  • Remember...advanced parameters are all reset when you choose another amp, so write them down.

If that doesn't get it, I'm in the rabbit hole because I've usually selected the wrong amp/cab combo, or I'm not playing the kind of guitar/pickups to easily cop the tone I'm after.

So then I revisit amp/cab combo, usually with fresh ears on a different day, and come up with something better than all previous tweaks right out of the gate just because I chose a better amp/cab combo.

Summary:
If it's easy, you've selected the right amp/cab and are probably playing right guitar/pickup type for the tone you're chasing.
If it's hard, it's likely the opposite of the above sentence.

And remember, dialing tone is an art, not a science, and some people have the talent/ears/experience to pull it off. Some don't.
 
solo-act said:
1. Select basic cabinet type
2. Select basic amp type

If you get 1&2 right, you'll only need basic amp controls 90% of the time.
If you're down the rabbit hole with confusing results, you probably didn't get 1 & 2 right.

3. Adjust gain to sound and feel right and adjust B M T to shape basic tone
4. Refine the basic gain and tone using same controls in step 3

That's 90% of getting the "killer sound" right there.

10% of the time I need to do more so I move on to "step 5", usually in this order, but ONLY what needs to be adjusted.

5. One or more of anything below

  • Input trim
  • Presence/Depth and/or Thunk/Definition
  • Compression and/or damp then dynamics, then if needed, sag
  • Dynamic presence/depth and/or pick attack
  • I always turn up speaker drive a bit
  • Sometimes I adjust graphic eq before/after presence/definition/thunk/depth
  • If needed I'll turn to cabinet motor drive and proximity and room controls if controls above don't quite get me there.
  • If I'm so damn close and only something like triode hardness or transformer match will get that last bit, I'll do it, but it's rare.
  • Remember...advanced parameters are all reset when you choose another amp, so write them down.

If that doesn't get it, I'm in the rabbit hole because I've usually selected the wrong amp/cab combo, or I'm not playing the kind of guitar/pickups to easily cop the tone I'm after.

So then I revisit amp/cab combo, usually with fresh ears on a different day, and come up with something better than all previous tweaks right out of the gate just because I chose a better amp/cab combo.

Summary:
If it's easy, you've selected the right amp/cab and are probably playing right guitar/pickup type for the tone you're chasing.
If it's hard, it's likely the opposite of the above sentence.

And remember, dialing tone is an art, not a science, and some people have the talent/ears/experience to pull it off. Some don't.
Click to expand...

+1 Great post!

echo44, apologies for my post as it was not meant to belittle your experiences or ability. I surely didn't think through the fact that you've been happy with your sound through your tube rig, so obviously it's not the player in your case. It is good, though, that you've now provided a lot more detail with respect to your experiences to better inform us in order to give you better answers.

FWIW, the AxeFxII wiki page has some great insightful information on the Amp Block, if you haven't checked it out already:

AMP (block) - Axe-Fx II Wiki
 
It really just depends on what my use for the tone will be. I don't play live with the Axe. I just use it for practice at home (usually with headphones, occasionally with monitors or running through the loop of my Peavey 6505 head/212 Boogie Rect cab.)

For practice with headphones, it's really simple. Pick the amp and cab I want, adjust basic tone controls, and add room level in the cab block. That's really about it. Sometimes I like having a comp block as the first thing in my chain- gives a little boost and helps with sustain. For some high gain tones I set up a MBC block near the end of the chain set to control the lows that can be a problem while palm mutings. For some of the Boogie models, it takes a little more effort. I usually have to make the classic V shape on the GEQ in the amp block while setting the bass knob really low.

My recording patches usually end up totally different from my practice patches. My practice patches usually end up sounding too dark and midrangy for good recorded tones in a mix. Mostly it's a matter of finding the right cab (IR). My recording IRs are usually more scooped in the mids than my practice IRs. Treble and presence usually gets turned up more while bass gets turned down more in the amp block. Some of the best recorded tones I've gotten have been from tone match presets I've found here on the forum or Axe-Change. Sometimes they help you achieve tones that simply aren't possible with our current selection of IRs.
 
barhrecords said:
I get more expression when I make my presets louder and brighter than what I want and use the guitar volume and tone controls to ride the gain and brightness.

To me, this makes the preset very dynamic and musically expressive to play.

I also frequently attach modifiers controlled by envelope to add some movement to the preset.
Click to expand...

I really like what I am reading and strive to achieve the same results ... best to have that extra loudness and brightness on tap and only a pot tweak away. Pots are really great dynamic tone shapers - I wish I better understood why (Cliff?).

Personally, I like to start off with my Alpha guitar pots at vol=~3 and tone=~5-ish (depends on the guitar and pickups of course) and boost from there (boost, sometimes, by tweaking the pots, but usually by first varying the attack - pick attack, string fret-pops from pinching and releasing the string, fingers v. pick to vary the bloom of the note, etc. - before resorting to tweaking pots).

Gotta love FAS & Cliff for giving us a state-of-the-art modeling tool that allows us to capture all of the nuances the guitar has to offers.

Can you elaborate on your use of modifiers and envelope to add movement? :encouragement
 
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Echo, this could be answered more specific if you list some of the tones you are shooting for. Based on the OP if you were using a princton you could say I want a killer Fender blues tone, then specifics from there -clean like Eric Johnson or modern power blues Marshall like Bonamassa. In short the above gave you some parameter tweaks to try and the IR is the biggest factor that will make you pleased with your pre sets at the end of the day.
I use the CLR and for me the biggest factor is the IR. I have SRV tones, Bonamassa, ZZ/Zeppelin to 80's metal pre sets. Mostly using the Plexi 50 watt jumped and Fender amps. The current Ownhammer are the best IR's out right now in my opinion. Worth the 20$ to get the new packs. Also sample others pre sets and tweak them to taste. I have never liked and factory pre sets but usually build off the rare find of the plethora shared (5% are kept the rest dumped).
Hope that helps!
 
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