Your preferred intonation method.

[Tonedeaf]

Mary Ann.

Mary Ann when I was younger, Ginger when I got older.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Never intonate to a capo note. It is not the same as if you fret it.

Especially if you have a floating trem!

 

[TSJMajesty]

How hard should you fret the string?

When setting up anything on a guitar, any note should be fretted exactly the same way you would when playing.

 

[secondwindow]

Thank you for the replies and ideas and yes to Mary Ann...lol. I ask about this topic because I have had 2 brand new $2200.00 guitars, in the last 6 months, arrive with (not minor) intonation issues and that is after the purported '55 point inspection'. The Strandberg I traded off because of tuning and intonation issues. Now I have a new Tele Ultra that when I tune open low E and 12th fret the saddle literally won't go back enough and when I fretted 3rd the G was ridiculously too sharp. I then started considering the nut was too high and sure enough it was. I filed the slots to more reasonable specs, and it was an improvement, but no where near what I would think a guitar in this category should be.

I realize non-temperament guitars are mathematically incorrect and $$$ don't always equal quality but I have some much cheaper guitars that are far more spot on. I think I will be trying some fret to fret methods to eliminate possible remaining nut errors.

I stopped doing business with that place that says they do a 55-point inspection due to MANY problems with the last several guitars a bought from them, and because of how they chose to handle the issues I raised. BTW, these guitars were all around $2500 Fenders.

 

[Budda]

My preferred intonation method is my tech

 

[rcm78]

Never intonate to a capo note. It is not the same as if you fret it.

I use the G7th capos with a light grip. I get what you’re saying though.
I got this from John Suhr on his Tone Talk episode. In my experience it works really well.

 

[greiswig]

Never intonate to a capo note. It is not the same as if you fret it.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Force of a capo shouldn’t affect anything from that fret to the bridge. Cinch it down with as much force as any capo I’m familiar with, and as long as you can still tune the string the rest of the intonation should not be affected.

 

[rcm78]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Force of a capo shouldn’t affect anything from that fret to the bridge. Cinch it down with as much force as any capo I’m familiar with, and as long as you can still tune the string the rest of the intonation should not be affected.

Some capos can pull the strings sharp.
Intonation is also dependent on how you play. Do you have a death grip, a light grip, something in between?

 

[greiswig]

Some capos can pull the strings sharp.
Intonation is also dependent on how you play. Do you have a death grip, a light grip, something in between?

Like I said, “as long as you can still tune the string…”

 

[bobmeredith]

I just tune the fretted 12 fret to the 12 fret harmonic on a new set of strings. The action on my guitars is quite low so then I just tune the guitar to open strings when I'm playing with other guitarists..... and tune to the 8th fret when I'm playing with keyboard players. Close enough for me.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Force of a capo shouldn’t affect anything from that fret to the bridge. Cinch it down with as much force as any capo I’m familiar with, and as long as you can still tune the string the rest of the intonation should not be affected.

If you bend the string down at all with the capo it will behave differently during intonation.

 

[greiswig]

If you bend the string down at all with the capo it will behave differently during intonation.

I just tried that, using two different capos. I have a Kyser that I modified with a lighter spring for electric that basically just barely frets the string. And a Shub (sp?) that I can put as much force down on as I care to. According to my Peterson tuner, it made no difference in the intonation of the string.

 

[Andy Eagle]

I just tried that, using two different capos. I have a Kyser that I modified with a lighter spring for electric that basically just barely frets the string. And a Shub (sp?) that I can put as much force down on as I care to. According to my Peterson tuner, it made no difference in the intonation of the string.

how big are the frets?

 

[scottp]

Tune the strings to third fret notes not open strings and intonate it at the 15th fret.

This is the best method I have ever found.

 

[scottp]

It seems to me that many people do not realize that whenever you fret a note, you are stretching the string.
And how hard you fret a note can stretch the string even more.

 

[greiswig]

how big are the frets?

1.36mm high, 2.76mm wide as best I can measure them. But I can kind of see what you're driving at, so I did a more extreme experiment.

I have a guitar that uses a zero fret. I first checked that the intonation was good on it at that zero fret and at 7th, 12th, and 15th frets. It's pretty solid for all three of those.

I then put a capo behind the nut to bend the strings even more, as though I have a scalloped fretboard. I can get a good 1/4" of bend with teh capo this way. I retuned the instrument, and checked the intonation.

It may have made a barely noticeable difference in intonation on the 5th and 6th strings (which seemed to measure very slightly sharp with the capo on), but not elsewhere. And in my experience, what I was seeing was well within the variance of what I'd expect my fingers to be pushing beyond as I was chording. This is with a standard set of 10's.

 

[OrganicZed]

It seems to me that many people do not realize that whenever you fret a note, you are stretching the string.
And how hard you fret a note can stretch the string even more.

Yes. Intonation is somewhat player dependent. If you play with a heavy hand you would need different settings than someone who has a lighter touch.

 

[Andy Eagle]

1.36mm high, 2.76mm wide as best I can measure them. But I can kind of see what you're driving at, so I did a more extreme experiment.

I have a guitar that uses a zero fret. I first checked that the intonation was good on it at that zero fret and at 7th, 12th, and 15th frets. It's pretty solid for all three of those.

I then put a capo behind the nut to bend the strings even more, as though I have a scalloped fretboard. I can get a good 1/4" of bend with teh capo this way. I retuned the instrument, and checked the intonation.

It may have made a barely noticeable difference in intonation on the 5th and 6th strings (which seemed to measure very slightly sharp with the capo on), but not elsewhere. And in my experience, what I was seeing was well within the variance of what I'd expect my fingers to be pushing beyond as I was chording. This is with a standard set of 10's.

These differences may be small on some guitars but why do things that even theoretically create anomaly . The hight of the fret , the crowning of the fret. The aim here is to replicate the playing experience not see how many things we can bend before it breaks . Also the Peterson only reads to 1/10th of a cent , the turbo does 1/50th.

 

[greiswig]

These differences may be small on some guitars but why do things that even theoretically create anomaly . The hight of the fret , the crowning of the fret. The aim here is to replicate the playing experience not see how many things we can bend before it breaks . Also the Peterson only reads to 1/10th of a cent , the turbo does 1/50th.

Maybe you should try this on your turbo and quantify the actual differences for us.

 

[GitGuy513]

1/1000th of a semitone is darn accurate. My Peterson Stroboflip does a great job. But I haven’t had to use it on my last two new guitars that came from Sweetwater and were perfect. Also the one was a Standberg which played extremely well and only my core PRS’s were equal in precision. There’s a few things to know about the Strandberg bridge system especially the tremolo when doing a setup. It takes some patience the first time through.

One thing I would hope everyone knows, and that’s a change from one brand of string to another and especially one gauge to another will definitely need intonation performed and preferably the nut gone over.