You Tell Me - Vox AC-30 or Axe-FX?

Scott Peterson

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I might have just borrowed a VoxAC30HW2X. I might be recording it in my home studio, using the Axe-FX for effects. I might have been trying to A/B with my Axe-FX and instead recording it direct.

Or I might be using the Axe-FX direct, with no AC-30TB in sight.

I did use the Axe-FX for all the effects (turning them on/off with the editor so there's a slight 'thump' when I switch them in/out).

Even with the best modelers, it's really hard to disguise when you record direct vs. recording an amp in the room. That's a major discussion that goes on (and on... and on...) here and elsewhere on the web.

So... no matter what I have done and am presenting here, I'd like folks to tell me what they think.

The guitar used is my Melancon Custom Artist (as usual) though I really do need to change the strings. The Axe-FX is being used; either just for effects or for the entire signal chain. I might be going out to a power amp and into a cabinet.

Or I might be doing all those things here to see if folks can 'pick it out' when I am doing one of the those possibilities.

I understand these sorts of things are wrought with pitfalls and often done in some manner to dupe and make fun of folks. That's not my intent at all.

I'm pretty proud of the effects I dialed up and am using and I'll admit the Axe-FX is the entire signal chain for at least part of this clip. The clip itself is longer, so you can hear different things and take your time critically listening. I have some chord stuff, some single note stuff, etc.. I was cutting this not so much for a post or thread, but as an internal check on what I've been working on for a few weeks - I've 'blown up' my entire process. I blew out my presets and started with a blank slate as if I've just bought the Axe-FX. I wanted to rethink and rebuild everything from scratch.

So I did, and I've stumbled on to things, learned things, had epiphanies and been taught some lessons. It's time to now get some feedback on what I've done.

So here's a clip. It's a higher resolution MP3. Use monitors, headphones, whatever. Tell me what you hear. Where did I use the Axe-FX direct? Where's the AC30HW2X? One tip - the only mic used is a SM-57. I have two of them.

I know the other modeling units do an AC-30; it's almost required they do. Almost everyone going has used a Vox AC-30 at some point in their lives, or at least heard one in the room with them or at a show. At some point in this clip... there is nothing but the Axe-FX for the amp tones... recorded direct to DAW. There is no way to 'hide' where it is; none of this is buried in effects.

Let's see what you hear. There's no gotcha, I'm not out to 'prove' anything. I learned a tremendous amount and went back to the drawing board after doing a series of higher gain (for me) clips a while back and the feedback was informative and - even when negative - very interesting. I took some of those comments and went back to the drawing board.

There is no post processing. No sweetening, no mixing tricks.

So have at.

http://snd.sc/hJL4tF
 
Great post - great sounds!

I like all of them, that's all I can say.
The only one I didn't care for is the muffled sounding one from 1:43 - 1:57.
But it might just as well be the same sound with tone turned down (bridge pickup?). Then again, if it wasn't surrounded by all these gorgeous sparkling clean sounds it might work very well on its own as a comping plus melody sound.
 
Nice tones. Impossible to tell the difference. PATCH PLEASE! :) The very last sound sounded a bit modeler-ish. So it must be the real Vox?
 
Who cares, when the sound is so good? :D

3:12-3:49 there is a smoother attack, but leslie/tremolo/humbacker could be the cause... or Axefx only. Till' 5:00... :?:
 
Nice clip. The sounds are all good (IMO), but I believe I hear differences at a few places. At 0:24.xx, there appears to be a splice. The sound before this point is cleaner and slightly brighter, and it grows a just little hair and gets slightly spongier after the change. The sound appears to go back to the cleaner version at 0:56.3x, where you also play a different riff. I believe there's another shift at 1:13.7x.

The sonic differences I hear are very subtle, but I can identify them in a relatively casual setting. Listening to a solo guitar track, I have a slight preference for the hairier sound, but either might be preferable in a mix, depending on the context. I didn't do any repeat listening on the portions of the clip with effects (all of which sound nice, BTW).

I am going to hazard a guess - with a relatively low degree of certainty - that the hairier sound is the mic'ed AC30. I didn't spend much time on this, because it's really moot with the sounds all being as close (and as good) as they are. Given my preference for the "gainier" sound - and assuming that the other is the Axe-Fx - I'd be inclined to dial up a little more sag and a little more MV. I might also notch out a little of the "fret noise spectrum" if I couldn't find a cab IR that took care of that on its own.

Let me stress again that I'm really picking nits here in what I believe to be the spirit of your request and that it would likely be impossible to distinguish between these sounds in a mix with other instruments.
 
DonPetersen said:
Great post - great sounds!

I like all of them, that's all I can say.
The only one I didn't care for is the muffled sounding one from 1:43 - 1:57.
But it might just as well be the same sound with tone turned down (bridge pickup?). Then again, if it wasn't surrounded by all these gorgeous sparkling clean sounds it might work very well on its own as a comping plus melody sound.
Exactly what I thought!
Really nice tones all around.
Hope you share your experiences. ;)
Thanks!
 
Sounds good, Scott.

Will you do a breakdown of your Vox preset the same way you did your former JCM800 preset? That was really interesting.
 
WHO CARES :!: :shock: ;)

I do prefer a little more broken glass in my AC-30TB's, but this is great regardless of what you used ....

If parts of it are the Axe, just prooves that it's closer to the real thing than evaaahhhh :!:

If it's a real AC-30, then it prooves you're pretty darn good at mic'ing a cabinet, especially with only one SM-57 ... :eek:
 
I'll tip my hand this weekend or early next week; just need the time to do it.

The background noise is the single coil on my guitar - it picks up interference from the computers and monitors. Always has. Doesn't matter Axe-FX vs. amp on that, it's a constant when I use single coils.

I'll share the patch; it features my new signal chain layout. I blew up my approach and started everything from scratch treating it the way I'd treat an analog chain but incorporating my personal 'wish list' of how I'd always wanted to route effects.

I added comments to the Soundcloud file player so you can see what it is you are hearing. There is one splice in there (hint). Jay caught it. I'll say more in a day or so.
__________________
 
Impressive as always. You can tell there are different tones and the splice if you listen to it but I would be a fool to try and say what is what. It sounds good no matter what you used and I think that's the point.
 
Here's the scoop: it's all Axe-FX. Direct. 100% of the time. There is one splice, where I edited out another extended part (even more boring than what I left in!) and it's obvious.

What did happen is a few things. I was over a friend's house a few weeks ago where he did have his Vox AC-30 and we were just playing, jamming and talking. I dialed up a very similar tone, he even remarked how similar it was at the time, and I saved that. Add that tweak in the amp block to the other 'rebuilding' I am doing and here's a test clip I cut in one pass - really no intent to share it - but thought it would be interesting for folks to hear what I'm up to.

I'll do a in-depth breakdown on the patch - and share it - today if at all possible. I want to do a pretty comprehensive post about it, I'll probably start a new thread. This will be more about the process, focusing on why and how I did things more than simply just 'what'. The idea is to share concepts and ideas so folks across all platforms might benefit (or offer me ideas I might not have thought of).
 
Oh noes! Scott, ye have opened for yeself the inevitable hole in the spacetime continuum through which the "HA! I KNEW it wasn't a tube amp the whole time!" crowd may now traverse!

It all sounded fantastic. I think this is further substantial evidence that the technology has arrived that can honestly, and finally stand firmly alongside the analog counterpart, for all practical purposes.
 
FreaqyFrequency said:
Oh noes! Scott, ye have opened for yeself the inevitable hole in the spacetime continuum through which the "HA! I KNEW it wasn't a tube amp the whole time!" crowd may now traverse!

I've stared that one in the face many times, and I am not scared. :D
 
Scott Peterson said:
... it's all Axe-FX. Direct. 100% of the time. ...
Everything else would have surprised me ... :lol:
Scott Peterson said:
What did happen is a few things. I was over a friend's house a few weeks ago where he did have his Vox AC-30 and we were just playing, jamming and talking. I dialed up a very similar tone, he even remarked how similar it was at the time, and I saved that. Add that tweak in the amp block to the other 'rebuilding' I am doing and here's a test clip I cut in one pass - really no intent to share it - but thought it would be interesting for folks to hear what I'm up to.
Nice story. Thanks!
Scott Peterson said:
I'll do a in-depth breakdown on the patch - and share it - today if at all possible. I want to do a pretty comprehensive post about it, I'll probably start a new thread. This will be more about the process, focusing on why and how I did things more than simply just 'what'. The idea is to share concepts and ideas so folks across all platforms might benefit (or offer me ideas I might not have thought of).
Yeah! :twisted: Always appreciated!
 
Scott Peterson said:
Here's the scoop: it's all Axe-FX. Direct. 100% of the time.
So what's the difference between the slightly gainer and cleaner segments? It sounds like it might be as simple as changes in guitar volume.
 
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