Windows 11

[iaresee]

Almost every Steam game, excepted those with specific anti cheat systems, work flawlessly on Linux, I wouldn't really call that poor compatibility.

This is absolutely incorrect. Verifiably so (1, 2, 3). Steam has over 56,000 games in it's library with roughly 19,000 of them being verified or playable on SteamOS. That puts compatibility at around 30%. And that's being generous here and counting Playable, not just Verified. Playable means all kinds of weirdness exists in the experience. Verified is around 15-20%.

Also: all the triple A titles fall into that "don't work on Linux" bucket these days. See: Battlefield 6. So, like, the games people actually want to play don't work. Great.

You can try all you like, but the data is not in favor of your argument here. At all.

 

[alan.thomas]

This is absolutely incorrect. Verifiably so (1, 2, 3). Steam has over 56,000 games in it's library with roughly 19,000 of them being verified or playable on SteamOS. That puts compatibility at around 30%. And that's being generous here and counting Playable, not just Verified. Playable means all kinds of weirdness exists in the experience. Verified is around 15-20%.

Also: all the triple A titles fall into that "don't work on Linux" bucket these days. See: Battlefield 6. So, like, the games people actually want to play don't work. Great.

You can try all you like, but the data is not in favor of your argument here. At all.

Verified and playable means it's been checked and vetted by Steam, it's an official label kind of thing. It doesn't mean the other ones don't work. 'Unknown' is a list too, the games that haven't been tested, but your 30% figure assumes the unknown games don't work, which isn't true. On top of that, those are SteamDeck labels, not SteamOs like you said, that means the games who are verified and playable can run on a steam deck, it's based on the deck hardware, it doesn't mean the OS doesn't support them. A lot of the games that can't run on the steam deck because of the hardware will run fine on Steam with proton enabled on a desktop pc

I use Linux almost exclusively and besides the titles with some anti cheats software, I don't remember the last time I ran into an issue.

 

[iaresee]

It doesn't mean the other ones don't work.

This is the hilarity of the Linux-on-the-desktop zealot.

It doesn't mean it works which is what someone who wants to play a game wants to know.

You have to...you know...try it and find out. Maybe it works? Maybe it works if you put a lot of time and effort in to making it work? Maybe it works, but there are caveats around what works or how it works? Maybe it doesn't work.

You don't find out until you spend your leisure time investigating it.

Here's hoping you have leisure time left to maybe enjoy that game you wanted to play after you've done all that work to figure out if it works or not.

esides the titles with some anti cheats software

So like, the titles the vast majority of people out there want to play?

Linux-on-the-desktop people never cease to amuse me...

 

[MR.WESTONE]

You can't even use your previous computer for install. You have to buy a hole new system because of the forced use on A.I. Windows 11 is the new revaluation of constant spyware and total complet control of YOU, Clause Schwab has returned YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND LIKE IT

 

[alexjplant]

Had it occurred to anybody in this thread that advocacy of Linux isn't automatic "zealotry"?

Asking for a friend.

 

[iaresee]

Had it occurred to anybody in this thread that advocacy of Linux isn't automatic "zealotry"?

It becomes that when it crosses the line from a casual mention to a, "it can do anything Windows does" level of myopia, yes. Which it has for a few zealots in this thread.

Tell your friend hi?

 

[Andrew Male]

Verified and playable means it's been checked and vetted by Steam, it's an official label kind of thing. It doesn't mean the other ones don't work. 'Unknown' is a list too, the games that haven't been tested, but your 30% figure assumes the unknown games don't work, which isn't true. On top of that, those are SteamDeck labels, not SteamOs like you said, that means the games who are verified and playable can run on a steam deck, it's based on the deck hardware, it doesn't mean the OS doesn't support them. A lot of the games that can't run on the steam deck because of the hardware will run fine on Steam with proton enabled on a desktop pc

I use Linux almost exclusively and besides the titles with some anti cheats software, I don't remember the last time I ran into an issue.

Unfortunately for Linux those kernel level anti-cheats are for the biggest online games. I play PUBG so could never use Linux. Software and hardware compatibility is not necessarily Linux's fault, it's just the way it is and for a lot of people it's a huge turn off.

 

[alan.thomas]

This is the hilarity of the Linux-on-the-desktop zealot.

It doesn't mean it works which is what someone who wants to play a game wants to know.

You have to...you know...try it and find out. Maybe it works? Maybe it works if you put a lot of time and effort in to making it work? Maybe it works, but there are caveats around what works or how it works? Maybe it doesn't work.

You don't find out until you spend your leisure time investigating it.

Here's hoping you have leisure time left to maybe enjoy that game you wanted to play after you've done all that work to figure out if it works or not.


So like, the titles the vast majority of people out there want to play?

Linux-on-the-desktop people never cease to amuse me...

It's not about zealotry. You're moving the goal post from "only 20% of Steam game run well on Linux" To "Valve should provide a complete list of the games that run with Proton"

I'm not saying that gaming on Linux is perfect, and if games with kernel level anti cheat are important to you you should keep a windows partition at least (although I COMPLETELY disagree with you that the only games that people care about are those that implement those anti cheat) all that I'm saying is that I guarantee the figure you're giving is completely inaccurate, and it's well over 30% of the Steam catalog that can run on Linux.

So no, I don't agree when you say that Linux support for games is poor, it's not perfect but it's far from poor, and I'm not convinced that you actually tried.

That being said, I couldn't care less about it, I have no horse in this race,, although I like Linux a lot more than I like Windows. I'd say though, that I don't think that me or anyone disagreeing with you here deserves the level of snark you're giving us.

 

[iaresee]

It's not about zealotry. You're moving the goal post from "only 20% of Steam game run well on Linux" To "Valve should provide a complete list of the games that run with Proton"

I didn't move the goalposts at all. I provided a measurable assessment for "how many games run on Linux". You just came back and said, "it's more than that" but without any proof.

and I'm not convinced that you actually tried

I travel with a SteamDeck so I'm pretty up on what works and what doesn't. But at home I'm never going to fight that fight. I have more important things to do with my leisure time, like actually game, so I just run Windows. It is unarguably the easiest path here.

the level of snark you're giving us

Snark?

Edit: ProtonDB is less SteamDeck-focused for check if games work under Proton. The numbers still don't look great.

 

[Stratman68]

This is the hilarity of the Linux-on-the-desktop zealot.

It doesn't mean it works which is what someone who wants to play a game wants to know.

You have to...you know...try it and find out. Maybe it works? Maybe it works if you put a lot of time and effort in to making it work? Maybe it works, but there are caveats around what works or how it works? Maybe it doesn't work.

You don't find out until you spend your leisure time investigating it.

Here's hoping you have leisure time left to maybe enjoy that game you wanted to play after you've done all that work to figure out if it works or not.


So like, the titles the vast majority of people out there want to play?

Linux-on-the-desktop people never cease to amuse me...

I agree 100%.......................Although win 11 truly sucks!

 

[fuzzydude]

It becomes that when it crosses the line from a casual mention to a, "it can do anything Windows does" level of myopia, yes. Which it has for a few zealots in this thread.

Windows is just an operating system. Linux can do anything Windows can if the app/driver were written for Linux.

It's evidence of how many angry and disappointed Windows users there are that there is an entire community dedicated to making games written for an entirely different operating system work on Linux. And even faster most times. There's a reason why Steam doesn't use Windows on their handheld gaming platforms, it's a resource hog.

Belittling how far that community has gotten and criticizing that not all games are perfectly supported seems to be missing the big picture. If Windows were a better operating system, so many wouldn't be jumping ship to a free and arguably superior operating system.

As with most things in life, we try to find balance. Some are happily bending over to be shafted by M$ and Apple and some are happy to be part of the imperfect alternative that at least doesn't treat you as cattle. Whatever balance works for you, usually dictated by the software you're forced to work with.

 

[iaresee]

I agree 100%.......................Although win 11 truly sucks!

Both things can be true.

 

[iaresee]

Belittling how far that community has gotten

Pointing out that gaming on Linux is still not at par with gaming on Windows isn't belittling, it's fact. It was asked what Windows does better than Linux and, objectively, it's a better platform for gaming.

Edit: it wasn't even "What does Windows do better than Linux?" The question was "What does Windows do better than macOS"!!! And then a Linux zealot jumped in! Hilarious.

This constant need to defend Linux is really what is behind my statement of zealotry.

Shit on Windows? Go for it! Apple really sucks it big time? Fair game. Linux? Whoooooooa now, that's belittling. No, it really isn't. There's much about Linux to like. The entirety of my career is built upon it these days. But it is not great at everything and running games is one of those things its okay at, at best. It is not a suitable replacement for every computing task. Nor is it a great choice for every person who uses a computer.

I mean, if this isn't zealtory, what is?

Some are happily bending over to be shafted by M$ and Apple and some are happy to be part of the imperfect alternative that at least doesn't treat you as cattle

The more people jump in to "defend" Linux the more they prove my point. There's an irrational set of Linux users out there that can't pick the best tool for the job because the only tool they can see is Linux. Bizarre? In the extreme.

 

[vangrieg]

Take heed, ye of little faith, for behold — the time draweth nigh when Linux shall reign upon the desktops of the earth!

 

[iaresee]

Take heed, ye of little faith, for behold — the time draweth nigh when Linux shall reign upon the desktops of the earth!

This is definitely the year of Linux on the desktop.

 

[fuzzydude]

Pointing out that gaming on Linux is still not at par with gaming on Windows isn't belittling, it's fact. It was asked what Windows does better than Linux and, objectively, it's a better platform for gaming.

Edit: it wasn't even "What does Windows do better than Linux?" The question was "What does Windows do better than macOS"!!! And then a Linux zealot jumped in! Hilarious.

This constant need to defend Linux is really what is behind my statement of zealotry.

Shit on Windows? Go for it! Apple really sucks it big time? Fair game. Linux? Whoooooooa now, that's belittling. No, it really isn't. There's much about Linux to like. The entirety of my career is built upon it these days. But it is not great at everything and running games is one of those things its okay at, at best. It is not a suitable replacement for every computing task. Nor is it a great choice for every person who uses a computer.

I mean, if this isn't zealtory, what is?



The more people jump in to "defend" Linux the more they prove my point. There's an irrational set of Linux users out there that can't pick the best tool for the job because the only tool they can see is Linux. Bizarre? In the extreme.

Your point is very clear, but the reason it seems like zealotry is because you don't get it or have the experience to understand it. At first, I imagined that you didn't have a background in software from your comments but now I hear you do. So I'll just share what I think you're not understanding.

Saying gaming is better in Windows ignores the fact that companies are mostly writing games for Windows and not Linux. But just because they've written AAA games for Windows and not Linux isn't the reason Windows is a better platform for gaming anymore than the Atari 2600 was a better platform for gaming the first few years that NES came out because more games were available for Atari. It's not a better gaming platform, it just has more games written for it currently. Same issue with drivers. Nvidia and AMD spend way more time polishing drivers for Windows currently. Yet in some cases the performance is still better on Linux which is a testament to the gross inefficiency of Windows.

In fact, Linux is great at everything and provably better than Windows/macOS by a long mile. Your routers, IoT and other embedded devices are probably running some version of it because Windows and macOS, heck even Android and iOS aren't nearly as optimizable for a task.

Even if the third-party software hasn't caught up to it, it is a suitable replacement for every computing task because it is a streamlined, more open and even more secure operating system. I'm sure you've read The Cathedral and the Bazaar.

Why we defend it is because we understand these facts. We see the inevitability of where Microsoft and Apple are heading and we know how this game ends.

 

[bchampig]

Your point is very clear, but the reason it seems like zealotry is because you don't get it or have the experience to understand it. At first, I imagined that you didn't have a background in software from your comments but now I hear you do. So I'll just share what I think you're not understanding.

Saying gaming is better in Windows ignores the fact that companies are mostly writing games for Windows and not Linux. But just because they've written AAA games for Windows and not Linux isn't the reason Windows is a better platform for gaming anymore than the Atari 2600 was a better platform for gaming the first few years that NES came out because more games were available for Atari. It's not a better gaming platform, it just has more games written for it currently. Same issue with drivers. Nvidia and AMD spend way more time polishing drivers for Windows currently. Yet in some cases the performance is still better on Linux which is a testament to the gross inefficiency of Windows.

In fact, Linux is great at everything and provably better than Windows/macOS by a long mile. Your routers, IoT and other embedded devices are probably running some version of it because Windows and macOS, heck even Android and iOS aren't nearly as optimizable for a task.

Even if the third-party software hasn't caught up to it, it is a suitable replacement for every computing task because it is a streamlined, more open and even more secure operating system. I'm sure you've read The Cathedral and the Bazaar.

Why we defend it is because we understand these facts. We see the inevitability of where Microsoft and Apple are heading and we know how this game ends.

I've been a Linux user since the early 90s when it was distributed on a ton of floppy disks. I know enough about it to know it's horrible for serious and productive audio work. I don't play games so I can't comment on that, but to say it's better than Windows/macOS at everything is laughable.

 

[iaresee]

Why is arguing with a Linux zealot like trying to kill a zombie process?

No matter how many logical arguments you send, they just won't terminate and they keep spawning child processes about how "this year will be the year of Linux on the desktop."

 

[Peavey Herman]

Snark?!

 

[fuzzydude]

Why is arguing with a Linux zealot like trying to kill a zombie process?

No matter how many logical arguments you send, they just won't terminate and they keep spawning child processes about how "this year will be the year of Linux on the desktop."

Why does that bother you? It bothers you that some are happy with Linux. I mean, you're clearly happy and can defend whatever it is you're using. Please explain how what you're using is better and not because software already exists for it.

I've been a Linux user since the early 90s when it was distributed on a ton of floppy disks. I know enough about it to know it's horrible for serious and productive audio work. I don't play games so I can't comment on that, but to say it's better than Windows/macOS at everything is laughable.

Again, you are not differentiating the operating system from the apps that are specifically written for it.

The same example for extra clarity: I have two games on NES (Nintendo Entertainment System), but 200 games on an Atari 2600. Is the Atari 2600 therefore better? Or is the NES actually better at everything but just doesn't have as much games written for it currently?