Will tubes go away??

Kriig

Kriig

Fractal Fanatic
Is the tube on the way out?

No. .. Not likely. Guitarists are sometimes so weird and old school, that being innovative in this part of the music industry must be, to put it mildly, difficult. I have tried several digital amps and POD types. I have always gone back to tubes. Simply because the feedback, the sound or push in the "amp" has not been to satisfactory. Something is missing, but has given the equipment a try. My last amps has been in the upper echelon when it comes to amps. Rivera, Mesa, CAE, VOX, Fender, Marshall, Carvin Legacy, Peavey JSX/Classic and Bad Cat. Just so you can get an idea what i'm used to, soundwise...

Had I been the type that liked only one or two kind of noises, it had become with one or some of these amps. Unfortunately I suffer, like several others, of a disease: GAS . Just have to check out this or that. Hehe.

Because there is no tubes involved in the AXE-FX, there are often comments about the sound or feel.... These are sometimes statements that come from people who have not even tested what they are putting down.
As a child I always had to taste the food, before I said I did not like it. Then it happened that I tasted, but was so set on that it would not taste good, that I did not like it. Regardless of whether it was good or not. My girlfriends daddy refuses to taste sushi, because it is not boiled or fried fish. Okay for me, but he miss something good. Not sure he likes sushi, but he will never know if it's good or not. His loss. That's it for guitarists also. If they do not want to try it out once .. Then they go (maybe) missing something that would have been perfect for them. If they have an amp they are satisfied with, and do not feel they need something more ... Do not change anything, but do not step on those who actually try something other than mom's meatballs in gravy.

And now a little about the AXE-FX:

The most important thing is that it sounds good. And it does. By God it does....

I run my AXE-FX through a Mesa 50/50 poweramp(which I got cheaper than an ART SLA-2) to two 2x12 cabinet with V30. It will soon be two 2x12 with G25 too. Yesterday I connected the Axe directly to a mixer. All I did was to turn on cabsim. This is in the GLOBAL menu, so all amps will then turn cabsim on or off. Cool. Anyway: Axe right in the mixer. Changed "speaker" and "mic" in the menu, and bang on target. Sounded just like the 2x12 cabs.... out of the PA!!!!

The good thing here is that when I connected to the poweramp afterwards, only to switch cabsim off again, I was back on track. Now i connect the Axe to the Mesa, through the fxloop/out2. Putting the fxloop before the cabsim. And the Axe-Fx understands that i'm using the fxloop as a aux when there is no return signal!!! Amazing....

At GLOBAL menu has the ability to change the "thump" It is very convenient with a shortcut, in addition to global eq, that changes this. Partly because of taste, but also because the sound is changed in every room you get in. (and by volume). Great to be able to curb the "omph" with 2 push on a button.

I would say that the Axe-Fx is one of the best preamps on the market, tubes or no tubes. Well gosh, you certainly get preamps that make one type of sound better(maybe), and if that's what you want. Go for it!
In a blind test, I had not heard or known that this is not tubes. I've played guitar since 1988, on tubeamps since 1992, and had line6 amps, pod's etc. This is the first time it feels completely right. I do not regret one second that I sold the Roadking. I've already gotten the Axe to sound just as good and better. It was a clean sound I was most worried about. For it sounded like bombs and grenades(in a good way) in the Mesa RK. Especially with the BB preamp, and the Tube Driver from the M13. This sound I found in the Echoplex (with a little modding). Turn up the volume to (awfully) loud. Let the BB go into the AXE, and got the same result as from my Road KingII, in stereo with a Mesa Stilletto. Massive punchy breakup! Insane!!!

The effects're in a separate class .. WHAT A SOUND.... Check out Ultra Verb presetet ... Sound does not come in the way of the attack in the guitar, but nonetheless you are right in the Rondane/Grand Canyon ...

Some think this is expensive. I think you get an incredible piece of gear for your money. An insanely good preamp, and an effects device in worldclass.

I'm very happy for getting this result. Especially since the Axe-Fx was ordered without having tested it. While I sold my Mesa, which I loved, i was slightly worried. Relief was GREAT !!!.... when I found a sound to my liking, turned up the volume, hit an an a-chord ..... and received answers to prosecute .... so i kept it ... hehe.

If you can't, in a simple way to get good sound out of the Axe-Fx. Then you should find something else than the guitar ... You can possibly play acoustic. Or kazoo

In my head, this is the best purchase I've ever done. Performance <-> cost ..... well ... No better buy in my opinion. You could set up a calculation with a highend amp and a highend FX unit (TC G-force/Lexicon PCM / Eventide ).... You do not get it for about 2000. -

And when you are in the studio, you have to spend time putting mic's up to get the sound right. We just have to cram 2 XLR right in the mixer, and we're good to go.

And you can take with you; only the Axe to the gig, provided you have good monitor, plug it right into the mixer ... And sure, you have your sound served to the public. Like YOU hear it ...

The only negative for me, as the drummer in our band pointed out, is that hereafter it will be boring to go into musicshops. Nothing fun to test anymore..Ampwise. In the shops around today, there is little to turn down the Axe .. Can spend time and money on guitars instead. BTW: My dear coguitarist in the above-mentioned band, are in the situation: Buying motorcycle or Axe-Fx? And he is keen on a bike. Selling perhaps his trusty Mesa Tremoverb stack, previously owned by Marius Müller.

He was convinced by the AXE-FX, to put it that way.

Summing up:

Best sounding piece of gear i've had. But put a bad sounding guitar into this----> it will still sound bad. Just like a good amp. Exellent respons to volumknob, hard/soft playing, great attack(no respons time).. Just a plain out GAS-killer.. I have not said so much about how it sounds, other than great, good, fantastic etc. Sound is each to his/her own. So you have to test it for yourself. It worked for me. Will probably never buy an amp again....

Thanks to Cliff and Fractal Audio, for making this. Can't wait till the MFC101 comes :)

The first REAL alternative to a good tube amp...

Regards Johan Kriig, Norway
 
Kriig said:
...boring to go into musicshops. Nothing fun to test anymore..Ampwise.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Same thing happened to me...as well as...reading Guitar World (or other guitar mag) has lost all appeal in the gear review/new release area.
 
I would say everything is dead on... except now I find my self GASing for a different guitar and not an amp.
 
Can I use your signature? :lol:

If you can't, in a simple way to get good sound out of the Axe-Fx. Then you should play something else than the guitar ... You can possibly play acoustic. Or kazoo
Click to expand...

That's great! :mrgreen:
 
raulin said:
Can I use your signature? :lol:

If you can't, in a simple way to get good sound out of the Axe-Fx. Then you should play something else than the guitar ... You can possibly play acoustic. Or kazoo
Click to expand...

That's great! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Haha.. Sure :lol:
 
of course tubes are on the way out !

the only reason they are still around is because they sound so great

when something digital sounds as good as a tube.... *drumroll* they will be replaced... its really simple. line 6 doesnt sound as good as the real thing.. so a lot of people reject it..

99% of the public aren't nostalgic about tubes.. if you are.. thats cool... but you sound very naive when you say that they cant be replaced... we're on the axe-fx forum !! have you turned it on?

if it can sound that close right now.. do you really think that in another 10 years devices like the axe-fx arent going to completely embarrass a prehistoric valve amp with 5 knobs?
 
Kriig said:
If you can't, in a simple way to get good sound out of the Axe-Fx. Then you should find something else than the guitar ... You can possibly play acoustic. Or kazoo

Regards Johan Kriig, Norway
Click to expand...

hi kriig , without going in an endless discussion, i want to show you another way to see things :
the axe fx, is a GREAT gear.IMHO it's really hard in a blind audio test to tell the difference.
but what you hear is not what you play.
the axe fx simulate amp crancked.
the last keybord simulate steinway piano recorded, with GREAT touch and sensation in notes
the last eletronic drum simulate great tom or snare or kick drum recorded by big professionals in the best acoustic room with best mic.

so when you hear axe fx recorded VS a real amp recorded, it can sound the same, like the keyboard with 10 gigas of steinway sample , or the last electronic drum with an incredibile sound.

where i want to go is to is to say that what count first before the sound recorded is the sensation/interaction , the interaction when playing a real piano...the interaction playing a real drum....and sensation/interaction when playing a real amp.

i'm not say it's better or worst, it's better for some, axe fx is better for other.
i say that i understand people who like axe fx because we have all different background and different taste, even with all valve preamp like CAE , some people like it, some people no !
so i understand people who like it because they like the feeling it has, they feel that in PA it sound the same as a tube amp and it brings them , you, a great interaction :this is what count : what you feel.

but i also understand people who prefer play real amp, for the * DIFFERENT * sensation/interaction it brings.this sensation is best for some guys, worst for other.but it is different.what count in an instrument is less what you hear than the interaction you have with the sound, this is THE thing for me.

a recorded sampled drum of electronic drum in PA is in there 100 times better than a snare with bad mic, but the player's interaction with this snare will maybe make him more happy.

so nobody is right or wrong here, but before the clips or good sound you hear what count first is the sensation : i can make killer sound with some gear, for the audience, but if the "feeling" is bad , that's not ok for me.

so just to say that the little sentence that i quoted from you is , i think , little "too much" , because that would mean people that are not satisfied with the axe fx and not finding "good sound" , i mean for them "good interaction" should play another instrument because it seems to a lot of guys here find impossible not get a good sound of axe fx.
the axe fx works for you, if it don't works for someone else, it's because of the feel they have when playing , the interaction that doesn't fit their play, their background etc.
it doesn't make them incompetent guitar player.

just my 2 cent , if i did'nt understood your intention, sorry , and this is a "peace" intervention !
have a nice day ;-)
stef
 
deadletter said:
of course tubes are on the way out !

the only reason they are still around is because they sound so great

when something digital sounds as good as a tube.... *drumroll* they will be replaced... its really simple. line 6 doesnt sound as good as the real thing.. so a lot of people reject it..

99% of the public aren't nostalgic about tubes.. if you are.. thats cool... but you sound very naive when you say that they cant be replaced... we're on the axe-fx forum !! have you turned it on?

if it can sound that close right now.. do you really think that in another 10 years devices like the axe-fx arent going to completely embarrass a prehistoric valve amp with 5 knobs?
Click to expand...

Did you read the whole reveiw? It's some personal thoughts too, you know :shock:

Personally i have replaced tube many times, with Line6 and other stuff, but was never satisfied. Until now.. Yes i have turned my Axe-fx on, and that's why I'm totally satisfied now. It kills my former amp: Mesa Road King II. I do not feel that i'm playing digital at all. To me, and others that i play with, this is as good as tubes.. Or better. But, i still know at least 20 guys who plays blues, country etc. They will not show up at stage with anything other than their Fender, Bad Cat, Cornford etc tube amp. Why??!! Because it's not politically correct. Maybe they will do so in 10-20 years, when this is politically correct and give them cred. I do not know that now. If i did, i would start a company that made exactly what the public want in 10 years ;) So: 99% of the puplic may not care about tubes, I don't care, but a lot of the guitar playing puplic really care.. For now..

I don't care what the guitar playing public use. I'm happy that the each one of the public has their own thing going. That's what makes people creative.. Agreed?

Just please read the whole reveiw before bashing out negative comments... I use my Axe-Fx Ultra. It grows on me every time i turn it on..
 
Kriig said:
Or better. But, i still know at least 20 guys who plays blues, country etc. They will not show up at stage with anything other than their Fender, Bad Cat, Cornford etc tube amp. Why??!! Because it's not politically correct.

.
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don't you imagine one second that instead of "political correct" these guys just PREFER the interaction with another gear than axe-fx :?: (cf : see my last post)
 
stef herbuel said:
Kriig said:
Or better. But, i still know at least 20 guys who plays blues, country etc. They will not show up at stage with anything other than their Fender, Bad Cat, Cornford etc tube amp. Why??!! Because it's not politically correct.

.
Click to expand...

don't you imagine one second that instead of "political correct" these guys just PREFER the interaction with another gear than axe-fx :?: (cf : see my last post)
Click to expand...

Of course.. They love their setup. Like I said: I DON'T PERSONALLY CARE. Lucky me ;) But 4 of them has tried my Ultra and agreed that it sounded great. But when they only use the amp's own sound(including reverb/tremolo) and a drive, there is no point to change what they are happy with. BTW: they all actually said that THEY would not do a show with some rack gear. You know, blinking lights etc is not appealing to them.. So it got something to do with "politics", IMHO.

I can't speak for others. Just jump to conclusions :lol:

If you got your sound with your existing gear: Good for you. Why change?

My last post was just a reply to deadletter. I felt that he had not read my reveiw as intended. I may be wrong, of course.. Just trying to point out my THOUGHTS. And i have thought about it, before i wrote it in words. It's my point of veiw, not a general opinion. If others have their own point of veiw, that's good. Because then we get a discussion/debate about it. ;)
 
stef herbuel said:
Kriig said:
If you can't, in a simple way to get good sound out of the Axe-Fx. Then you should find something else than the guitar ... You can possibly play acoustic. Or kazoo

Regards Johan Kriig, Norway
Click to expand...

hi kriig , without going in an endless discussion, i want to show you another way to see things :
the axe fx, is a GREAT gear.IMHO it's really hard in a blind audio test to tell the difference.
but what you hear is not what you play.
the axe fx simulate amp crancked.
the last keybord simulate steinway piano recorded, with GREAT touch and sensation in notes
the last eletronic drum simulate great tom or snare or kick drum recorded by big professionals in the best acoustic room with best mic.

so when you hear axe fx recorded VS a real amp recorded, it can sound the same, like the keyboard with 10 gigas of steinway sample , or the last electronic drum with an incredibile sound.

where i want to go is to is to say that what count first before the sound recorded is the sensation/interaction , the interaction when playing a real piano...the interaction playing a real drum....and sensation/interaction when playing a real amp.

i'm not say it's better or worst, it's better for some, axe fx is better for other.
i say that i understand people who like axe fx because we have all different background and different taste, even with all valve preamp like CAE , some people like it, some people no !
so i understand people who like it because they like the feeling it has, they feel that in PA it sound the same as a tube amp and it brings them , you, a great interaction :this is what count : what you feel.

but i also understand people who prefer play real amp, for the * DIFFERENT * sensation/interaction it brings.this sensation is best for some guys, worst for other.but it is different.what count in an instrument is less what you hear than the interaction you have with the sound, this is THE thing for me.

a recorded sampled drum of electronic drum in PA is in there 100 times better than a snare with bad mic, but the player's interaction with this snare will maybe make him more happy.

so nobody is right or wrong here, but before the clips or good sound you hear what count first is the sensation : i can make killer sound with some gear, for the audience, but if the "feeling" is bad , that's not ok for me.

so just to say that the little sentence that i quoted from you is , i think , little "too much" , because that would mean people that are not satisfied with the axe fx and not finding "good sound" , i mean for them "good interaction" should play another instrument because it seems to a lot of guys here find impossible not get a good sound of axe fx.
the axe fx works for you, if it don't works for someone else, it's because of the feel they have when playing , the interaction that doesn't fit their play, their background etc.
it doesn't make them incompetent guitar player.

just my 2 cent , if i did'nt understood your intention, sorry , and this is a "peace" intervention !
have a nice day ;-)
stef
Click to expand...

Haha.. Did not see this post.. Ok. Got your point Stef :) A good sound, may not be your own perfect sound :D I added a new one to my signatur.. The point with those words was not to exclude. Just a happy shout from me :mrgreen:

Peace
 
sorry ;)

i know your review was more insightful than that... but your review kind of compares todays modelling vs tubes...

in the scope of say the next 30-40 years... they are as good as gone baby.... they are cumbersome unreliable inconsistent old things... when you can have the sound of 50 amazing tube heads in 1 unit and it sounds so good that you could blind fold jimi hendrix himself and he wouldnt know the difference then they are as good as gonnneee baby... nostalgia or no nostalgia

its just the way of the world...

not saying that its there yet.. but its clear that we are down that path now.. with the axe-fx signalling that change.. and as cpu processing exponentially increases so does the detail in which every little bit can be modelled...

the 'virtual rig' concept was never flawed... when its done right, it will flatten anyones desire for a big ol tube amp...

its only the poor quality of todays modelling that creates this grey area where people rub their chins.. "hmm... i just dont know.. you cant replace a tube "... give them perfect realistic amp modelling and it's all over
 
deadletter said:
sorry ;)

i know your review was more insightful than that... but your review kind of compares todays modelling vs tubes...

in the scope of say the next 30-40 years... they are as good as gone baby.... they are cumbersome unreliable inconsistent old things... when you can have the sound of 50 amazing tube heads in 1 unit and it sounds so good that you could blind fold jimi hendrix himself and he wouldnt know the difference then they are as good as gonnneee baby... nostalgia or no nostalgia

its just the way of the world...

not saying that its there yet.. but its clear that we are down that path now.. with the axe-fx signalling that change.. and as cpu processing exponentially increases so does the detail in which every little bit can be modelled...

the 'virtual rig' concept was never flawed... when its done right, it will flatten anyones desire for a big ol tube amp...

its only the poor quality of todays modelling that creates this grey area where people rub their chins.. "hmm... i just dont know.. you cant replace a tube "... give them perfect realistic amp modelling and it's all over
Click to expand...

It's ok. Just wanted to set the record straight. :)

In that time perspective it may come true :) The new generation growing up, is more open for new technology. As long as it's a demand for it, there is money in it. That's what will bring this technology forward. :cool:

Peace, Kriig
 
Tubes are here to stay.

I predicted to my guitar playing friends 25 years ago that eventually digital distortion would one day get as good as real tubes. It finally happened. I only learned about it a couple of months ago.

Like many I've tried the Line6 stuff, Rocktron stuff, software plugins, etc. etc., and of course real amps.

Solid state power amps for stereo systems have been around for 50 years, but there are still a good number of hi-fi enthusiasts who demand tube amps. I've never owned a high fidelity stereo tube amp but I can believe that there is a difference in the quality of the sound. Not a big difference, and maybe not something I can hear, but still, there's a difference.

Some guitarists will never give up their tube amps. For one thing some guitarists will never accept FRFR based systems - they wan't a real guitar cab, so tube power amps are here for good, period.

For another thing, some people like having 5 knobs to turn to get their tone instead of several hundred parameters to adjust.

Lastly, I don't see many big name guitarists switching over to the AXE because they have a signature tone and only need one type of amp, they have roadies to move all their stuff, and they have endorsement deals with the amp makers.

Most people will eventually abandon tube amps, but some people will always want their tube amp, if only for the smell and to warm their hands over.
 
sampleaccurate said:
Most people will eventually abandon tube amps, but some people will always want their tube amp, if only for the smell and to warm their hands over.
Click to expand...

in 2045 when robots rule the world we wont care about tubes... we will only care about defending ourselves from the laser beams they shoot from their genitals
 
Tubes such as those used for guitar amps will disappear when the last company to make them decides they are no longer profitable. I wouldn't even guess when this will happen. I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

Other types of tubes, such as those used for radio transmission and magnetrons, will survive for quite some time as well. Forever? No. But I don't think they will disappear in any of our lifetimes, or even my child's lifetime.

Perhaps some wackos in government will decide tubes use too much power and mandate they be eliminated. Sounds ludicrous, but it happened with the incandescent light bulb.
 
steadystate said:
Tubes such as those used for guitar amps will disappear when the last company to make them decides they are no longer profitable. I wouldn't even guess when this will happen. I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

Other types of tubes, such as those used for radio transmission and magnetrons, will survive for quite some time as well. Forever? No. But I don't think they will disappear in any of our lifetimes, or even my child's lifetime.

Perhaps some wackos in government will decide tubes use too much power and mandate they be eliminated. Sounds ludicrous, but it happened with the incandescent light bulb.
Click to expand...

That wouldn't surprise me one bit. After all, the carbon footprint of a preamp tube is at least 1,000 times larger than its transistor counterpart, and any tube amp uses at least 10 times or more power than the AXE. Do you think playing real tube amps is worth destroying our planet you selfish pig you? Big brother may not think so. The incandescent light is a tube - it only has a filament, and it's filled with argon I believe, not a vacuum, although early ones were vacuum - but it's still a tube and soon it will be outlawed. Think that one over. Maybe I was wrong.

Somehow I don't think Nancy and Harry will care about the sound of your guitar distortion when it comes to their agenda. There sure don't care what the color of my skin looks like under those compact fluorescent lights they're shoving down my throat, nor do they care about the mercury inside them that will end up in the environment, nor do they care about the electronic interference they create in my studio.

Stephen Cole
 
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