Why the Obsession with FRFR Solutions?

[chris]

I think the original question was why so much emphasis on high end/quality, rather than just FRFR in general.

 

[Scott Peterson]

I think the original question was why so much emphasis on high end/quality, rather than just FRFR in general.

The original question was framed in a way to create a stir rather than any real discussion. You'll notice a trend soon.

 

[chris]

Meh

 

[LVC]

The original question was framed in a way to create a stir rather than any real discussion. You'll notice a trend soon.

What trend Scott?

Are you trying to stir some crap up .... again?


If you have an issue we can take this offline.

But I will call your BS nonsense every time I see it.

so keep posting your BS and I will call you every time on it.

This is not the Gear Page where you can silence someone that actually challenges you or posts something you disagree with or god forbid, openly states that he does not like one of the products "you" personally endorse.

If you are having a "Global Moderator" crisis --- I am right here pal.

You know what ... why don't I help you get it out of your system -- why don't I copy this post and put it on the Gear Page -- so you can get your kicks and give me an infraction --- LOL


Seriously dude-- get a life or at least a wife for a night -- sounds like you need it.

 

[cander328]

I think this is a fair question and for me it is what flyingfadr has said. I play in church and it is far from a professional monitoring situation (we have a couple of small monitors and there is no opportunity for individual mixes). I have had some decent success with a set of high end in-ears and a shure psm-900 system for monitoring but my band mates don't hear me because I am the only one using in-ears. I have started using the CLR (powered) as a back line while still going FOH and it is a great solution. I could probably do this with a number of different monitors however the beauty of a FRFR solution is that I also use it to design and tweak my presets so that what I am getting through the PA and from the CLR is very close to what I am expecting to hear.

I ran exclusively through the PA and then fed back into the floor monitors for quite a while. The reason I got the wedges was so not to have to rely on someone else to allow me to hear my rig... Like the sound guy who forgot to pipe my guitar into the monitors... Also, a stereo guitar wedge setup is a glorious beast.... ;-)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[ventura]

Yo Cats!!

Interesting thread... I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll try to give it my best 2 cents.

I didn't really "understand" FRFR that much till about 2 years ago. And at that time, I thought less of it as it was kinda gimmicky and all part of this "modeling realm" that I didn't want anything to really do with, mostly out of my own stubbornness and ignance (sic). But anyway, I see more and more of my peeps going AF2, and they're killin' it!! Great tones, going off about flexibility, yada yada. I tried the poweramp/cab thing, the 4CM, etc. never to any extent that made me go "wow". So I knew there was a piece of the puzzle missing.

Enter FRFR. Why did I do the research I did? Why did I obsess? Why did I drop $2K on a couple floor monitors? Because I wanted to remove every possible weakness in the chain, and fully open up what the AF2 is/was seemingly capable of. I did obsess - in the form of educating myself, researching, studying, etc. Why the price? Because it's still a new field of equipment, and even with that said, we're a small niche in amongst the big picture. In my world, I play in my own sesh space; haven't gigged in over a year; record silently; but always always always want and love to hear my playing and tone. Before I gave the Axe the 'boot', I thought at least give it everything I can to let it shine.

In short? I has shone. The CLRs I picked up made me realize I was going about things improperly. Furthermore, as I record, I know what's coming out is exactly the same as what's getting recorded. Even more, they're leg shakers man...these units have got some serious sack to them. So for me? Throwing down the cake was well worth it because it's opened up a huge world of possibilities, where the only weakness now, is me.

Hope that made sense.
Mo

 

[Kriig]

Please don't start again. Scott's comment was not called for here IMPO.

LVC should just let that comment pass, because it was out of place. I get that he gets defensive.

Hope it won't be trendy to kill threads like this. If you don't like a thread. Don't read it. If you are a moderator and personally don't like it. Read it to moderate.

Keep old history from other forums out of this place please.

I think i lot of new users and/or young musicians would even learn something about live playing in this thread. Why someone might go this or that route. Not even related directly to the Axe.

Peace!

What trend Scott?

Are you trying to stir some crap up .... again?


If you have an issue we can take this offline.

But I will call your BS nonsense every time I see it.

so keep posting your BS and I will call you every time on it.

This is not the Gear Page where you can silence someone that actually challenges you or posts something you disagree with or god forbid, openly states that he does not like one of the products "you" personally endorse.

If you are having a "Global Moderator" crisis --- I am right here pal.

You know what ... why don't I help you get it out of your system -- why don't I copy this post and put it on the Gear Page -- so you can get your kicks and give me an infraction --- LOL


Seriously dude-- get a life or at least a wife for a night -- sounds like you need it.

 

[LVC]

I think you have somewhat just answered your question here :lol. The obsession that most of us have with FRFR solutions in relation to the Axe is so one can hear an accurate representation of not only what's been modeled by the Axe but any other full range signal you put through it with out any compromise.

To further add because the Axe can be so much more than just a traditional guitar rig, synth block, Bass amp sims the amplification and/or speaker system needs to up to the task. To get one that does this without adding or subtracting to the end result at a reasonable price is the gole. So an obsession? maybe but I think a better word to describe it would be a journey. Because once you find what you need you really don't need to look any further... unless of course you just like to spend money :mrgreen.

dude I am beyond obsessed with gear and I for one will buy and try everything until I find what works for me. Unfortunately I end up with a bunch of stuff I don't need or end up using.

Case in point. I walked into Guitar Center yesterday and they had a used Carol Ann OD3 Combo on the floor. I threw out a stupid price (hoping they'd say so) but they said yes -- so I went home with the amp.

I got home played it ... played my Axe .. played it ... played my Axe and then my wife reminded me that I had previously owned "three" of those amps and I had told her that the amp was also in the Fractal.

So today I returned the Carol Ann amp to GC ... LOL

 

[axel]

The original question was framed in a way to create a stir rather than any real discussion. You'll notice a trend soon.

Sorry Scott, but I would have to disagree with you on this one. I think it was a reasonable question, and don't see that it was meant to "stir" anything, just discuss where high end FRFR is most relevant, and visa versa.

 

[LVC]

Not called for means uncalled for? English is not my native, so i'm asking seriously here... If not i have to refrase my post...

Edit: i think you copied my post before i took out some words that made it all wrong. Please read my edited post...

Got it! Sorry for the mix up on the post.

Although I primarily speak English every day, English is not my native tongue either. Today I had family over and we spoke Spanish all day. What happens is

1. First In am speaking in Spanish but thinking in English
2. After a while I get back in the grove and I am speaking and thinking in Spanish

Then I switch back to English and I am speaking in English but thinking in Spanish.


It gets very confusing!

 

[axel]

I think the original question was why so much emphasis on high end/quality, rather than just FRFR in general.

Exactly, that's how I interpreted it also, nothing more.

 

[TheOtherDave]

If the Axe is most often used FOH or plugged into your PA (live) -- then why do you need an expensive FRFR speaker if you intend to use the Axe live and not in a studio or home setting?

So that you can monitor what you're sending to the PA. "Expensive" isn't required, but more accurate is more better and that's often accompanied by more $$.

Unless you are using the FRFR speaker as you source of amplification at a gig -- nobody is going to hear it.

That's not true... you yourself will hear it, as will your bandmates. And, unless the stage is just that big, so will anyone in the first few rows in front of you.

Wouldn't be better (and cheaper) -- just to either plug into your PA or one of your PA speakers to dial in your Axe?

"Cheaper" depends entirely on what gear you're talking about. As for "better"... Not really, but it might not be worse than your other options. PA speakers can have up to 5 3/4 metric crap-tons of processing on them that the box you'd be using wouldn't have, which means they won't necessarily sound the same. So as far as comparing your tone coming out of the speaker on-stage with what's coming out of the PA is concerned, you'd essentially just be using a randomish speaker.

 

[Scott Peterson]

If discussion is desired, then why the "obsession" in the thread title which begs a question about using quality gear. It frames it in such a way that implies negative connotation to using quality gear. Use quality gear and it is a comment on your 'obsessive-ness'.

If the Axe is most often used FOH or plugged into your PA (live) -- then why do you need an expensive FRFR speaker if you intend to use the Axe live and not in a studio or home setting?

Unless you are using the FRFR speaker as you source of amplification at a gig -- nobody is going to hear it.

Wouldn't be better (and cheaper) -- just to either plug into your PA or one of your PA speakers to dial in your Axe?

Just wondering folks that is all.

If he's 'wondering' why you need quality FRFR and wants an informative and intelligent discussion about it - then why frame 'expensive' in a negative light right from the jump? He's trying to assert - at least it appears to me - that if you choose a higher quality personal monitor speaker as your own monitor that you are 'obsessed'. That's... odd. But it seems pretty clear to me.

I would suggest to LVC or anyone that wanted more "quality" focused discussion that a less provocative title would be a better choice to that end. No one is stirring anything up, except maybe the OP in his thread title and first post. If someone disagrees with your open ended and negatively framed first post, it's to be expected. And it's not reason to take offense. No one is out to 'get' LVC and his defensive attack on me shows a lot more about him than it does about me. I said his thread shows a trend; and it does show an unfortunate trend lately of negative and provocative thread titles to get attention. Negative and provocative thread titles do not breed positive, informative or helpful thread discussions. It wasn't an attack on LVC, though he jumps at it pretty hard assuming it is.

I think some people here are taking the whole Internet thing a bit too seriously. Get some thicker skin, calm down and if someone says something you disagree with you don't overreact like it is the end of the world and assume they hate you and everything you stand for.

Calm down - it is just the Internet.

 

[cobbler]

I believe you answered your own question in your previous trolling thread about the CLR. You yourself said you play small venues where you used your "boomy" CLR as the backline. It's all about options. If you go FOH then you have a quality monitor for you and your band mates listening experience. If you have a small venue with no FOH then you have a quality backline for the audience to hear. It's not about "obsession". It's about buying the best you can buy within your budget that fulfills your needs. It's about buying what makes you happy and inspires you to make the best music you can make.

And "expensive" is a relative term. In my case, I try to do as much research and hands on experience I can. While it's not always the case there are definite price ranges with most gear and they are tiered towards different prospective buyers (IE. consumer vs. prosumer etc.) with the better quality gear at the pro level of the spectrum. I try to get the best quality gear that might even be considered overkill for my skill level or needs in hopes that I will grow into it and not be purchasing multiple iterations of said gear as I travel the path. Some of us don't like buying and selling gear over and over and I will never understand how someone could buy the same exact piece of gear multiple times. To me that is much more "obsessive" than spending a few extra bucks to buy quality right off the bat. How does that saying go? Buy quality and you only cry once?

 

[LVC]

So that you can monitor what you're sending to the PA. "Expensive" isn't required, but more accurate is more better and that's often accompanied by more $$.

I agree with this -- the question for the novice when is enough enough? How deep do they need to go into their pockets to cover the basics/

That's not true... you yourself will hear it, as will your bandmates. And, unless the stage is just that big, so will anyone in the first few rows in front of you.

I think I was referring to monitors set up facing you instead of the crowd

"Cheaper" depends entirely on what gear you're talking about. As for "better"... Not really, but it might not be worse than your other options. PA speakers can have up to 5 3/4 metric crap-tons of processing on them that the box you'd be using wouldn't have, which means they won't necessarily sound the same. So as far as comparing your tone coming out of the speaker on-stage with what's coming out of the PA is concerned, you'd essentially just be using a randomish speaker.

I have not done it yet -- but I am going to plug one of our PA speakers into the rig and see what happens. Actually run a separate cable and run both my current FRFR box and a PA speaker side by side. That might be a good exercise --

 

[Lerxst]

I love amps, and cabinets, and Thai food!

 

[rickboot]

Don't make me pull over!

 

[Sixstring]

The question for the novice when is enough enough? How deep do they need to go into their pockets to cover the basics

This is where a fair amount of head knowledge as it pertains to audio in a general sense will come in handy. In the end you need to happy with the selection you have made and try not to second guess your dicession.

 

[FantomasXD]

I love lamp.

 

[piofusco]

I have not done it yet -- but I am going to plug one of our PA speakers into the rig and see what happens. Actually run a separate cable and run both my current FRFR box and a PA speaker side by side. That might be a good exercise --

Why didn't you try this from the get go? You've stated multiple times that the places you play don't have a FOH system and that you bring your own system. :shock Why not just use this system? If you pump vocals and a band through it, why not guitar as well? Running your guitar signal would be a wonderful addition to the mix of your band, no?

I saw a picture of you with a tube amp :shock AND a PA speaker mounted up on a stand. You've mentioned you don't like having all of this gear - so, why use both? Why not just one or the other? Considering you are "an old school amp guy," my guess is the "The amp in the room" vs. FRFR is uncomfortable to you. However, you seem to understand the advantages of the Axe AND peoples responses to why they use FRFR, but...you still hanging on to that ol tube amp! :lol

I think too much focus is spent on high end solutions and very little (if any) on budget friendly solutions that a person can use to make music with the Axe for himself and an audience.

Seriously though, why did you buy an Axe? What would you offer in place of it? I know you aren't complaining, I just want to understand you.

Not really sure this thread is going anywhere though .. YA, people obsess about the BEST solution possible. I can see from your posts that you do the same. It's called GAS. It happens.


So what?