Why place delay, reverb chorus etc *after* cab

Hey Everyone!

I am finally coming around to being a Fractal lover. I don't own any gear yet but will soon.

My question is can you delay one output separately from the other? I am the only guitarists in my band and currently run one amp with speaker out into a Palmer loadbox then two outs from the Palmer into a TC Electronic G-Major when I put a 12 millisecond delay on the right side so that my one guitar sound bigger and you can hear the stereo effect. Will the AX8 be able to split the signal AFTER the cab sim with one path having a delay so that I can get this same stereo effect?
 
as a lot of the recording guys say, use your ears and not your eyes. I would think this would depend mostly on a mono vs stereo setup. reverb is going to give you width in stereo that you do not get in mono. if using a mono cab block, you would surely hear a significant difference in the width of the sound using the reverb after the cab block especially if it was a fairly heavy reverb sound. that's the advantage to using units like this to begin with because we can do things that aren't always simple in the real world. I've never ran a stereo setup other than recording or headphones and I'm not exactly sure how you would do that with a real cab unless maybe you would use two cabs. Even in that situation you would still be dependent on the soundman to pan the mics for it to actually be in stereo. if both speakers have the exact same sound coming out left and right then all you got is a louder mono. If most soundmen only run in mono anyway I question the need for stereo effects for live use. studio use would be a different situation entirely.
 
Smittefar said:
Yes - you have many ways to achieve the same effect in AX8
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I read another member's idea about this but I can't figure it out in AX8 EDIT. Any clue how to do this? Running a delay in parallel and switching the input to Left is where I am getting hung up. My delay block isn't offering an input mode.

After the amp block put in a stereo cab block. Hard pan each cab left and right.
After the cab put a delay in parallel and set its input mode to left only, its mix to 100%, balance to 100% left and put the delay time somewhere between 15ms and 30ms.
 
Fire In The Womb said:
I read another member's idea about this but I can't figure it out in AX8 EDIT. Any clue how to do this? Running a delay in parallel and switching the input to Left is where I am getting hung up. My delay block isn't offering an input mode.

After the amp block put in a stereo cab block. Hard pan each cab left and right.
After the cab put a delay in parallel and set its input mode to left only, its mix to 100%, balance to 100% left and put the delay time somewhere between 15ms and 30ms.
Click to expand...

Not sure if I'm understanding your question correctly -- but just choose one of the stereo delay types.

Edit: never mind -- I see where you're hung up. Sorry, took a second and a re-read for my feeble brain to catch up
 
I think it makes a big difference if you are running stereo. Not sure if when someone says it makes no difference that they may be referring to a mono setup. A stereo reverb will collapse to mono if you are using a mono cab after it. Try it both ways with a pair of headphones with a wide reverb with a fair amount of reverb and it will sound huge in stereo and sound almost weird in mono especially with a lot of distortion.. As others have said though most of us run mono so it is probably true that in that situation it would make little difference. use your ears and try it both ways.
 
I use to go Stereo to FOH, in my patches i use reverb and delay behind the cab and in parallel like a wet-dry-wet setup. I think its the best option to choose with the axe fx, and sound very amazing, and if you bypass reverb, dealy or both don't change the guitar volume. To me this in live situations is awesome.
 
Fire In The Womb said:
I read another member's idea about this but I can't figure it out in AX8 EDIT. Any clue how to do this? Running a delay in parallel and switching the input to Left is where I am getting hung up. My delay block isn't offering an input mode.

After the amp block put in a stereo cab block. Hard pan each cab left and right.
After the cab put a delay in parallel and set its input mode to left only, its mix to 100%, balance to 100% left and put the delay time somewhere between 15ms and 30ms.
Click to expand...

I do something similar...I run drives/eq before amp and cabs (in stereo; hard panned L & R; with different cabs) then run delay(s) in parallel feeding into reverb. I use 3 delay settings depending on how pronounced I want the effect, but there is a right post delay knob in the delay block that I adjust to 25ms to give a little separation. I took a screenshot to hopefully help...

Screen Shot 2017-08-17 at 8.24.06 AM.png
 
Smittefar said:
It sounds like, it is the HAAS effect you are going for. @Danny Danzi has a great video on this in this thread...
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PURE GOLD!! Thank you bro! This is exactly what I was trying to do. I was trying some wierd s#$% and it was sounding really bad. I can't upload my image because I am a newbie here, but I will when I get a few most posts in and the forum allows me to.
 

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oceanruckus said:
I do something similar...I run drives/eq before amp and cabs (in stereo; hard panned L & R; with different cabs) then run delay(s) in parallel feeding into reverb. I use 3 delay settings depending on how pronounced I want the effect, but there is a right post delay knob in the delay block that I adjust to 25ms to give a little separation. I took a screenshot to hopefully help...

View attachment 41363
Click to expand...
This is pretty cool too. I was thinking that if there is only one line that ends a the output mixer, that means your in stereo. I guess this is not the case?
 
philipacamaniac said:
One risk with the Cab block at the end is collapsing everything to mono. If your FOH setup is mono anyway, that's fine, but if you are specifically trying to send out stereo verbs, you'll want to make sure the Cab block is set to stereo.
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This (above) is what the risk is -- don't run stereo effects into a mono cab block. Else it generally does not matter sonically whether stereo wet effects are before or after the cab (if cab is stereo).

So -- you can pretend you are putting your effects into your amp loop before the cab.... or pretend you are in a studio and adding them after the mic is on the cab, whatever you prefer! I personally like the later, but it does not matter sonically unless you use a mono cab.
 
Hi is there a reason why the delay block works in stereo only when I place it after the cab block.
Not for nothin but the reason why I play in stereo is simply because it’s so awesome for me. I wish all could experience the sound I hear when the echo ping pongs or when the chorus is really a chorus in stereo but it’s really just for my own inspiration. I love that sound
 
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jeffdenny said:
Hi is there a reason why the delay block works in stereo only when I place it after the cab block.
Not for nothin but the reason why I play in stereo is simply because it’s so awesome for me. I wish all could experience the sound I hear when the echo ping pongs or when the chorus is really a chorus in stereo but it’s really just for my own inspiration. I love that sound
Click to expand...
Have you tried a Stereo cab block?
 
As others have said, both ways work - as long as you know what you're trying to achieve.

I run mono 99% of the time, but still tend to go for the following:

1. Chorus/Phaser - assuming I'm going for an classic guitarist sort of sound - back when I used an amp, it was a Chorus/Phaser in front of the amp, so that's where I put it
2. Chorus - if I'm going for a more produced, subtle sound - then the mixer would have added chorus, so it goes after the amp
3. Reverb - if I'm going for a clean Fender amp sound, I like spring reverb between amp and cab - that seems slightly more real to me. If not reverb is right at the end of the chain
4. Delay broadly follows reverb, I always use it in parallel to the dry signal - because I like bypassing the delay and the echoes still sound. I have delay immediately before reverb most of the time, so after the cab where the mix engineer would have added it. However occasionally I will have it between amp and cab.

Back in the day I used to home record with a Palmer load box and speaker simulator, it made a noticeable difference to put effects after this - basically all of the Bradshaw rack sounds (google it kids!) which ran heads into loads into effects came for free.
 
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