Why not Rivera?

laxu said:
Honestly if I was given free reign over the amp models list, I'd probably cut out everything except the FAS models and just add more of them. That would shut up all the "it doesn't sound exactly like my specific example of this or that amp" stuff and splitting hairs over them that is ripe in the digital modeling world.
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Would shut it up for
sure, because Axefx sales would take a dive. Few are gonna buy Axfx for FAS models no matter how good they are. Acceuracy to the benchmarks is everything. Fractal is so much about accuracy and splitting hairs - that's one of the things they do best and why customers gravitate to them - I agree that we don't need a ton of similar amp variations, but for the ones that are in there, the accuracy is what many many are looking for and get - and that's a good thing.
 
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laxu said:
If it was only one amp model with tons of controls, people would be asking for presets so they don't need to figure them out.
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So we agree? Consumers want preset amps that are already configured to whatever real amp they want to use? In which case, any argument about having an amp that shouldn’t be added is negated by the initial agreed point.

Practically, sure, it’s impossible to have every single amp ever, and their variations thereof, modelled in the Axe FX, but why does that mean we have to stop at 200-odd? If we’d stopped at 5, would you be saying the same thing? What about 10? 20? 100?

I don’t understand why people seem to think ‘I don’t use it, therefore nobody needs it’. If it was my way, we’d have 30 variations on the IIC+ and JC120 and nothing else, but it’s not built for me, it’s built for all of us.
 
I'm guessing for Fractal, there's gotta be a return for effort angle to it. It must take a lot of effort, not just to model an amp channel initially, but to maintain it after with fw upgrades, retesting, and all important hair splitting accuracy improvement efforts. I'd bet that's a reason we've seen few new amp channels added over the last year+ - every one added has a never ending workload attached. So if we only get a new one once i a blue moon, I'd prefer it is a relatively unique one.
 
Seems to me the more interesting thing is "if you're trying to get brandX amp's sound, here's the direction to head". Having been thru that with the various amps "of the Vox AC30" variety, there doesn't seem to be a List of All Amps to Best Options in AxeFX III type of guide. That said, reading Yek's Amps Guide cover to cover, over and over, can indeed help! Thanks again @yek !
 
I played Riveras for years and know them very well. Mainly the TBR and M/S series. They have their own sound whether you like them or not. I always liked them. To me, they were between a Marshall and Boogie. Not as much gain as a Boogie and a smoother, warmer sound than a Marshall. Although they are master volume amps, it needed to be turned up to around 4 to start getting the tone going. I don’t understand the attitude of not including a model in the Axe. If you don’t want to use it, what do you care? There are all kinds of amps in the Axe I think sound like crap, but I would never say get rid of them. I’m sure someone likes them.

Reminds me of Amadeus when they said there were too many notes in Mozart’s music. He asked which notes should he delete.
 
JDR3009 said:
So we agree? Consumers want preset amps that are already configured to whatever real amp they want to use? In which case, any argument about having an amp that shouldn’t be added is negated by the initial agreed point.

Practically, sure, it’s impossible to have every single amp ever, and their variations thereof, modelled in the Axe FX, but why does that mean we have to stop at 200-odd? If we’d stopped at 5, would you be saying the same thing? What about 10? 20? 100?

I don’t understand why people seem to think ‘I don’t use it, therefore nobody needs it’. If it was my way, we’d have 30 variations on the IIC+ and JC120 and nothing else, but it’s not built for me, it’s built for all of us.
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I think there's a difference between actually unique sounding amps and amps that are just a slight variation of what already exists. We have a freakin' ton of Marshall based amps for example that can easily cover pretty much anything with that sort of voicing. Similarly Vox and Fender based amps are well represented.

With already so many options, I think for any new model the question should be "does this model add something to the sound palette?" Fractal said in a recent thread asking for a Suhr SL68 that they would simply copy the Plexi 100 model and rename it. That's pretty much what we don't want because it's just more clutter in an already poorly organized and inconsistently named list of models.

Let's also not forget that for Fractal to model the amp in the first place, they first need to procure and measure it which has its own cost (amp and R&D) associated. So I can fully understand why they haven't been too keen to add more models during this generation because they already probably have a warehouse full of real amps.

I am not very familiar with Riveras so maybe OP's request would be an actual amp model worthy of adding. But it could also be "just this other amp with a different name". My thoughts in this thread have been less about Riveras and more about adding amp models in general.
 
yek said:
I owned a Knucklehead. I found it a difficult amp to play and didn't regret selling it.
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Me to, channel 2 i remember was cutting like a knife in the mix, on it's own not a real pleasant sound but in a band very usefull.
 
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yek said:
I owned a Knucklehead. I found it a difficult amp to play and didn't regret selling it.
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I assume you’re talking about the original KH? I owned one of those too. Those are very different from the TBR and M/S amps. Very raw and aggressive. They didn’t have the same compression and were a little tougher to play if you’re used to playing a different kind of amp. I didn’t care much for mine either. That said, I saw Mike Keneally playing through one with Vai and it sounded unbelievable. I saw Jason Beiler playing through a TBR when Saigon Kick opened for Extreme in the early 90’s and his tone made Nuno sound like he was playing through an AM radio by comparison.
 
Rivera S120 Stereo Tube Guitar Amp was really great back in the day, very versatile. I'd like to buy another one just to have, but 60 lbs. is way too heavy as a jazz player for gigs. Thanks to the Axe FX 3, we have those tonal options and more at a much lighter weight. I had a Rivera Sedona too but Paul had told me back in the day that it was Fender on one channel and Marshall on the other with the ability to add in the small speaker for acoustic. It was 70 lbs. and I played hundreds of gigs with it. I wonder why my lower back is so bad.
 
Budda said:
So can I complain its in the wrong place if its a wish? ;)

Yep i’ll go right to the deale-waitaminute, ive only seen 5 for sale in 10 years and the only people I know with them dont live in my countrso
Budda said:
So can I complain its in the wrong place if its a wish? ;)

Yep i’ll go right to the deale-waitaminute, ive only seen 5 for sale in 10 years and the only people I know with them dont live in my country.
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So the smart thing to do they just keep an open mind and if you do get the chance to try one in out, togive it by a shot. When I managed a music store years ago, I had a friend who did clinics for Rivera. Pretty impressive tones and also the guy that played guitar on Arsenio was a big user as well. Very versatile
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dking said:
Rivera S120 Stereo Tube Guitar Amp was really great back in the day, very versatile. I'd like to buy another one just to have, but 60 lbs. is way too heavy as a jazz player for gigs. Thanks to the Axe FX 3, we have those tonal options and more at a much lighter weight. I had a Rivera Sedona too but Paul had told me back in the day that it was Fender on one channel and Marshall on the other with the ability to add in the small speaker for acoustic. It was 70 lbs. and I played hundreds of gigs with it. I wonder why my lower back is so bad.
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I was using an S120 until about 1 1/2 years ago through two Rivera spec 1x12’s I made loaded with Scumbacks voiced like the old G12-80’s. Great amp but I was having the problem that I’ve been having with tube amps in general...not able to turn them up at gigs to where they sound good. I went through a few other amps since I stopped using that one and ended up with a Friedman JJ Jr. Still couldn’t get it high enough to satisfy me. I gave up and went AFX3.
JDR3009 said:
That may well have just been Nuno’s tone to be fair 😂
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It was the Three Sides tour. I guess he was using the ADA’s but it didn’t sound that great. It certainly didn’t sound like Pornograffiti which I thought was his best sound.
 
yek said:
I owned a Knucklehead. I found it a difficult amp to play and didn't regret selling it.
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I had a Knucklehead Reverb and a matching 4x12. I remember loading both into my car in the music store parking lot, taking them down into the basement, setting the whole shebang up in the corner, and thinking to myself, “This was a poor decision.”
 
App12 said:
So given your experience, how would you replicate the sound in the Axe?
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I'd look for a less-than-inspiring preset, then see what I could do to make it even less inspiring.

I'd love to revisit the title of the post... 'Why not Rivera?'

And then if anyone responds with a 'why not Rivera' there are some that are really pissy.

Whatever. 1000 Riveras. Go nuts.
 
the first tube amp I ever played was my guitar teacher's TBR... such a neat amp! not a huge knucklehead fan but the clubsters are great too.
 
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