Why not Rivera?

[arw]

This is the same reason why you wouldn't model a KSR Artemis.

it's not that they have a specificly unique tone, it's that they have such incredibly wide ranges of tones.

 

[State of Epicicity]

This is the same reason why you wouldn't model a KSR Artemis.

it's not that they have a specificly unique tone, it's that they have such incredibly wide ranges of tones.

That’s interesting logic, because that kind of versatility makes an amp far more appealing to me for modeling. With an amp with insanely wide ranging tone and gain controls, you could create gapless presets even more easily in Fractal modelers.

 

[laxu]

That’s interesting logic, because that kind of versatility makes an amp far more appealing to me for modeling. With an amp with insanely wide ranging tone and gain controls, you could create gapless presets even more easily in Fractal modelers.

You would more likely just have multiple models of that amp’s various modes and switch combinations.

As an example, the Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL I had was basically a Fender Super Reverb, Marshall Superlead, JCM800 and Bogner Shiva all in one. Oh and you could make it sound a lot like a Friedman BE with the right settings too. Great amp as a real device, but there’s no point emulating it when all of those models already exist on the Axe-Fx. All you would get is those same amp models renamed to represent the various switching options of the Bogner.

 

[State of Epicicity]

You would more likely just have multiple models of that amp’s various modes and switch combinations.

As an example, the Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL I had was basically a Fender Super Reverb, Marshall Superlead, JCM800 and Bogner Shiva all in one. Oh and you could make it sound a lot like a Friedman BE with the right settings too. Great amp as a real device, but there’s no point emulating it when all of those models already exist on the Axe-Fx. All you would get is those same amp models renamed to represent the various switching options of the Bogner.

One point of emulating a very versatile amp would be the gapless presets. If, e.g., an amp, not necessarily the Goldfinger, but any amp with extremely wide ranging controls, allows you to do more without changing models, you could do a lot more with just using scene controllers, and perhaps even avoid running two amps at once and switching between them with multiplexers, cutting cpu usage.

Another use would be for people familiar with the real world amp, who are used to dialing in their tones that way; it would be a more efficient tool in their arsenal to create a tone quickly (with the caveat that the pots will usually vary), simply because the controls might act more the way they’re used to.

Another use is for those unfamiliar with the amp, but who find the pot tapers to act in a way they more like what they expect. If some Marshall amps really need you to turn the bass knob essentially off, as well as the treble knob, that might be intuitive for some people, and simply having pots that act more intuitively could open a door to better tone ideas for some players.

I’m sure there are other positive points, but these three immediately to mind.

Two questions for you: What would you prefer for Cliff to update, if he stopped providing new amp models? He recently purchased a ProSonic, and I’m curious if you feel that the likely imminent inclusion of this model is something you advocate against?

 

[km 202257]

Maybe time for admin to close this thread and suggest posting to "Wish List"?

I feel it's becoming difficult to persuade FAS into adding new models, when AXE-FX already covers many many models.
If one seriously wishes Rivera amps, possible tactics may be like this? (Not an encouragement, just a thought experiment):

• To find some FAS artists who is also prominent Rivera users and ask them to put a pressure on FAS to model Rivera
• To find a good Rivera profile on K*/N* forums and let users there say "Betcha Fractal can't do this"

 

[skydog]

I had a Fender Deluxe Reverb, made when Paul Rivera was working with Fender. It was the best BR DR ever - sounded so good it was stolen just after a gig. His work was used by everybody who was anybody recording and doing session work in LA. I wish that I knew how to modify the current amps modeled on my axe fix iii, to sound like Paul’s versions. So maybe a constructive suggestion could be “amp-mod” presets representing the best of the best. I’m sure most of those guys would be proud to be included in such fine products as Fractal Audio. Again, my Rivera BF Deluxe Reverb was gloriously better than my other stock BF Deluxe Reverbs - and I have a few. It was my desert-island amp.

 

[State of Epicicity]

I feel it's becoming difficult to persuade FAS into adding new models, when AXE-FX already covers many many models.

It does look like we’re getting a ProSonic model in the future, and Cliff said I think two years ago that a Revv was coming soon at that point, but I don’t know whatever happened with that. It’s not the same thing, but the drives that have been added over the past year or two have been great! I think the addition of the FM models have maybe caused the resources to shift to port updates there, and maybe that’s what really the cause for fewer amp models. This is conjecture on my part.

 

[sprint]

Cliff said I think two years ago that a Revv was coming soon at that point, but I don’t know whatever happened with that.

I've been following this as a Revv keener. Revv has mentioned in a number of their regular yt livestreams over the last 2 yrs that they haven't gotten around to sending Fractal the required info. I'm getting the strong feeling that Revv is not all that interested or has changed their mind about having the Generator modelled in Axefx.

 

[laxu]

One point of emulating a very versatile amp would be the gapless presets. If, e.g., an amp, not necessarily the Goldfinger, but any amp with extremely wide ranging controls, allows you to do more without changing models, you could do a lot more with just using scene controllers, and perhaps even avoid running two amps at once and switching between them with multiplexers, cutting cpu usage.

Two questions for you: What would you prefer for Cliff to update, if he stopped providing new amp models? He recently purchased a ProSonic, and I’m curious if you feel that the likely imminent inclusion of this model is something you advocate against?

The point was that you can’t have that because any more complex amp would require its own models for various settings combinations. For example if we take the Goldfinger, it has a switch to go between Plexi and JCM800 type tones. To replicate this, there would be a Goldfinger 69 (Plexi) and a Goldfinger 81 (JCM800) models instead of just a 69/81 switch in a Goldfinger OD model. So that removes the benefit of extra controls within a single model.

At this point to me Fractal’s development efforts would be best directed at improving the user experience and effects. For example there is no way to emulate something like my Strymon Volante anywhere as easily as using the real thing. I think there’s a lot they could do to make many fx blocks more user friendly by offering extra presets (like they have already done), maybe a simplified view with usual user desired controls like Amp block authentic, offering better management for presets and cabs…just a ton of stuff that would have a bigger impact on the overall experience than taking the time to painstakingly add more amps. There’s a massive amount of good ideas on the wish list forums that I feel are far more relevant.

If Fractal had some dedicated guy whose only job was to measure and model more amp models, then sure go to town and add 1000 more if users want them. Hopefully with better tools to manage them too. But they can only do so much and to me that development effort would be better served elsewhere.

I have never played a Prosonic so I don’t know if it adds anything to the unit or not.

 

[sprint]

Though it has not bothered me that Fractal has slowed down on the new amp model additions since we already have so many, I would be very dissappointed if they slowed down on pushing the envelope of amp modelling improvement as I think this is one of Fractal's key sweet spots of excellence and we are not "there" yet. Besides, we don't know what their reaources capacities are and I expect that they can walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[laxu]

Though it has not bothered me that Fractal has slowed down on the new amp model additions since we already have so many, I would be very dissappointed if they slowed down on pushing the envelope of amp modelling improvement as I think this is one of Fractal's key sweet spots of excellence and we are not "there" yet. Besides, we don't know what their reaources capacities are and I expect that they can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Working on the amp modeling itself is different from adding even more amp models.

 

[TheOtherDave]

The logical end point is surely ‘you could create any amp you want with advanced params, why don’t Fractal just have one amp and you change everything about it until you get the amp you want’, which is clearly an absurd proposition and not an end point we should encourage.

Hypothetically, if they added a “circuit simulator” block and let you lay it all out virtually, they could do that. Then each “different” amp would be just a different preset for that block and people could just configure whatever amp they want.

Honestly, I like to tinker so I’d probably prefer it that way. I suspect the process of modeling amps involves precomputing a bunch of stuff, though, and including all that in the firmware might be a bit too much.

 

[sprint]

Working on the amp modeling itself is different from adding even more amp models.

Couldn't quite tell from your post if you were making that important distinction ot not, so I made the post directly. No offence - I'll update
my post to be a stand alone comment.

 

[cole lewis]

As long as someone can give a legitimate reason for their amp model request, fractal will make the decision or not to add it and that’s that. Or if enough people are asking for a particular amp. We can argue about whether or not it is to ourselves and that’s fine too. We don’t all have to agree on everything guys. Some here play blues all the time some people play extreme metal all the time we all have different tastes as well as different opinions. Let’s just try to be constructive if we have disagreements instead of calling each other names.

Some people here seem to think the amp model capacity of the axe is limitless. Someone else stated it but I’m pretty sure they have the amps in the axe IRL to continuously improve the algorithms and all that stuff. Meaning you need space time resources etc to maintain all of that. We are already at like 100 + physical different amplifiers.

Some people are trying to get to a deeper question of what is the point where you reach a level of absurdity with amp model count. 200, 300, 500, 1000.

Should probably discuss that in it’s own thread however instead of badgering people who disagree. I get it you guys want the amp models you want.

We’ve had this argument on the forum probably 20 times I’m not sure but it doesn’t seem to ever go anywhere constructive.

If you get an axe FX 3 and it’s not producing a sound you’re after, you can ask on the forum either 1, for advice on how to get there with the available tools or 2, you can ask for a particular amp to be added and maybe it will be added if fractal mastermind decides it is worthy. Boom done.

 

[skydog]

I don’t disagree. That’s why I use OUT/IN 4. The only things that I can’t get straight in the Axe-FX III are replicating my Binson Echorec and Mu-Tron III, so there goes the Dawner Prince Boonar and my Mu-Tron III. The Echorec is fussy and rare. No one knows enough to steel the Mu-Tron III. The Axe-FX already does a nice job replicating my Univibe, so it stays at home with the Binson.

 

[skydog]

Should probably discuss that in it’s own thread however instead of badgering people who disagree. I get it you guys want the amp models you want.

Please go back and read the comments.The OP was just asking. Let’s not judge each other. As for me, I only added accolades for Paul Rivera’s Fender Deluxe Reverb. Mine (wherever she is now) is a piece of art.

 

[erockomania]

I'd love to see modern amps such as REVV, KSR, etc... Seems like we have mostly older designs in the AXE. Not complaining, mind you. I have all I need. I just wonder why the more modern stuff isn't in there.

 

[sprint]

I'd love to see modern amps such as REVV, KSR, etc... Seems like we have mostly older designs in the AXE. Not complaining, mind you. I have all I need. I just wonder why the more modern stuff isn't in there.

see my comment above re Revv. I'm wondering if one issue in modelling modern amps is that the designs / schematics are not necessarily an open book the way older amps may be, so, in order to model those in detail the way Fractal does, some agreement is needed with the amp builder.

 

[cole lewis]

see my comment above re Revv. I'm wondering if one issue in modelling modern amps is that the designs / schematics are not necessarily an open book the way older amps may be, so, in order to model those in detail the way Fractal does, some agreement is needed with the amp builder.

It's already been stated but, multi channel amps like revv are seriously more about the diversity in channels and functions than about some kind of extremely unique tone it offers.

When the revv generator first came out I remember vividly what the original amp was pitched as like 100 other high gain heads. Here's an original 5150 lead channel type tone + a bunch of other stuff your 5150 doesn't offer.

Thats how the Revv were pitched. Thats how the KSR were pitched. More or less.

Both amps were "launched" online by Keith merrow. (an avid 5150 user)

The forums like sevenstring.org I can still remember all the discussions like that. People saying things like wow the lead channel is just as good as my original 5150 with all these options that are nice.

But yes you are right, modern amps designs are still well kept secrets compared to amps of yesteryear.

 

[SalazarMcMantis]

I thought I'd bring this up again for anyone else who's still interested. I stumbled across this video the other day and for me the same as he mentioned in the video, those harmonics always stood out on Skid Row's Slave to the Grind. If we never get a M100/TBR1-SL then so be it, but for anyone who is very familiar with them does anyone know what advanced parameters would help achieve that squeaky harmonics aspect of the amp?