Why is my tone so dark???

bradlake said:
I have just now been seeking out the Chicago Area Meyer distributors ....turns out the owner of one of the sound reinforcement services is an old school chum (and one of the best pedal steel players in the Midwest) ....there may be a Meyer in my future..............
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"a Meyer"? Don't you mean "a pair of Meyers"?

You can't bask in all that greatness in mono!

Funny related story:

Over the years my band has done work many, many times with a local school that teaches audio/video/computer production. We work for free with students so they get real hands on experience.

We've done many "live web-cast performances" where they do full front and side of house, multi camera video, video effects and multi-track audio and video recording plus live streamed broadcast.

All of this is done in the very nice Meyer Hall... Sponsored by Meyer sound. All the PA gear in there is from Meyer. I've used Meyer wedges as a foot rest!

I had absolutely NO idea who/what they really were until I started hanging out here!

:D
 
I find that what I've dialed in to sound fantastic with my studio monitors (Yamaha HS8) ends up sounding high and shrilling with a bit too much mid as well on my XiTone passive wedges. So what I ended up doing was setting a Global EQ on OUTPUT2 to pull back a lot of the higher frequencies from my XiTones.

This retains the uncut OUTPUT1 mix to my studio monitors for recording purposes but gives me a better live sound through my XiTones.

Does this make sense as a good practice for handling this?
 
Rekster said:
I find that what I've dialed in to sound fantastic with my studio monitors (Yamaha HS8) ends up sounding high and shrilling with a bit too much mid as well on my XiTone passive wedges. So what I ended up doing was setting a Global EQ on OUTPUT2 to pull back a lot of the higher frequencies from my XiTones.
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I was having the exact same problem. I kind of hated fixing with global EQ. Felt like it was masking a bigger problem. I just started dialing in a lot darker on my near fields.
 
I dont like cutting high end at the output, but if it’s only a cut for your own monitor then I guess that’s okay.

My near fields are actually pretty darn close to what I hear live. They translate well to FOH. I know if I get a good tone at home it’ll be great live.
 
iaresee said:
I was having the exact same problem. I kind of hated fixing with global EQ. Felt like it was masking a bigger problem. I just started dialing in a lot darker on my near fields.
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Karl Houseknecht said:
I dont like cutting high end at the output, but if it’s only a cut for your own monitor then I guess that’s okay.

My near fields are actually pretty darn close to what I hear live. They translate well to FOH. I know if I get a good tone at home it’ll be great live.
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Thanks guys, it’s very possible I’ve been setting up my presets with too much high frequency. It’s also possible I’m experiencing the Fletcher Munson effect . I’ve been happy with my tone but I’m going to experiment with high cuts to my IR’s and flatten my global output. Best part of the Axe FX is I can experiment and easily go back the way it was if I don’t like how it sounds.

Cheers!
 
FWIW many of my presets also defaulted to the 2000 hi-cut. Trying to find a common denominator. I've never messed with Global cabs.
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Regarding the "studio monitors versus live rig" conversation...Generally speaking, decent studio monitors will typically give you more high end and less low end than the average monitor wedge, or FOH mains. Unless you've got a sub in your studio, most studio monitors have a 6 or 8 inch speaker for low end. That's just not going to compete with the low end of a much large speaker (12, 15, or 18 inch). Studio monitors also have a more responsive high range (again, generally speaking) than the average monitor wedge or FOH system. Additionally, you're typically going to be sitting directly in front of a studio monitor, within a few feet, and basically at ear level. Given all of that, sounds dialed in on studio monitors will often sound thin or even shrilly on a monitor wedge or FOH system. The quick and dirty fix is to EQ your studio monitors to compensate for that. If at all possible, also double check your patches on something similar to what you'll be playing through live. If you don't have that option, take a look at what the FOH person is doing EQ-wise to your guitar, and that'll at least get you pointed in the right direction as far as EQ compensation when dialing in patches on your studio monitors.
 
GaryB said:
Generally speaking, decent studio monitors will typically give you more high end and less low end than the average monitor wedge, or FOH mains...Studio monitors also have a more responsive high range (again, generally speaking) than the average monitor wedge or FOH system...Given all of that, sounds dialed in on studio monitors will often sound thin or even shrilly on a monitor wedge or FOH system.
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Help me understand that. You're saying that sounds dialed in with studio monitors will sound thin and shrill on systems that have more bass and less treble?
 
This has been really interesting, I'm very happy with my sounds - I use a DXR10 the whole time.

After reading this thread, I took my main presets - which have the cab high cut all over the place (generally between 8.8 and 14k) and set them to 6.7k.

Made a very significant difference, not one I could really hear but in terms of 'realness' and feel in the room - massive, I was already very happy with the sound, now even more so!

For me I think it's made it a little less 'hi-fi'
 
Rex said:
Help me understand that. You're saying that sounds dialed in with studio monitors will sound thin and shrill on systems that have more bass and less treble?
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What I'm saying is that speakers don't all sound the same. If you dial in a patch on a pair of Yamaha NS-10's, that same patch will sound different coming through a wedge with a 15 & a horn at 3x the volume level. I see I did get that backwards though....Sounds dialed in with studio monitors will often times sound dull and boxy on systems with more bass and less treble. Sorry about that. I knew what I wanted to say, but it didn't come out right.
 
GaryB said:
What I'm saying is that speakers don't all sound the same. If you dial in a patch on a pair of Yamaha NS-10's, that same patch will sound different coming through a wedge with a 15 & a horn at 3x the volume level. I see I did get that backwards though....Sounds dialed in with studio monitors will often times sound dull and boxy on systems with more bass and less treble. Sorry about that. I knew what I wanted to say, but it didn't come out right.
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Lol. No worries.
 
iaresee said:
I was having the exact same problem. I kind of hated fixing with global EQ. Felt like it was masking a bigger problem. I just started dialing in a lot darker on my near fields.
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Well, I did some experimenting with high cuts to my IR's. Some down to 3.5k, others to 5-6k. Presets sound much darker on my studio monitors, but in a good way. There was a high sizzle that I didn't notice until it was gone, and it's a good thing it's gone! And turning them up louder eliminates some of the darkness.

Here's my problem. I like setting my presets on low volume on my studio monitors. To keep my ears from getting tired more than anything else. But I've learned this is a bad idea, likely due to the Fletcher Munson curve. When my monitors are turned up loud, the highs come alive with a vengeance and thin out the tone. Adding high cuts to IR's really thickens things up.

So I no longer require high cuts on my global EQ and have my presets almost identical for studio vs live. Thanks for the nudge with this!
 
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Rekster said:
Here's my problem. I like setting my presets on low volume on my studio monitors. To keep my ears from getting tired more than anything else. But I've learned this is a bad idea, likely due to the Fletcher Munson curve. When my monitors are turned up loud, the highs come alive with a vengeance and thin out the tone. Adding high cuts to IR's really thickens things up.
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Yea, I know a lot of guys run with pretty extreme high cuts on the CAB block. I'm starting to do that even though, on my nearfields, my ears say that's too much.
 
iaresee said:
Yea, I know a lot of guys run with pretty extreme high cuts on the CAB block. I'm starting to do that even though, on my nearfields, my ears say that's too much.
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I notice a lot of community shared presets are quite dark sounding as well. To my ears, too dark. I'll be interested to see how it affects cutting into a mix.
 
I feel like some sizzle on some tones can be a good thing. However, without turning this discussion into a "fizz" debate, I think there's a point where "sizzle" crosses over into "fizz", and you have to find that point and cut everything above it.

The results of me re-tweaking my cab block (and everything else) according to Cliff's recommendations were very positive. I listened back to recordings from Sunday morning's service (yes, church player) and my tone was right where I wanted it. It also didn't feel thin playing it.
 
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