Why is my recorded tone so bad? It's incredible thru my guitar cab.

K

kush

Inspired
Hi folks, I'm hoping I can get a bit of guidance here. I'm pretty much a n00b when it comes to recording, so I hope it's a fundamental issue I'm having. When I hook the Axe-Fx (std) with the 4CM method thru the power section of my THD Flexi via the loop and into my guitar cab, the tone is insanely good. I have no problems with any presets or creating new patches, it sounds great. I mean friggin GREAT!!

When I run the Axe into my audio interface, a Presonus Inspire 1394 into Logic Express on my Macbook Pro, I cannot get a good tone to save my life. Clean sounds are pretty good, but as soon as I try to add any amount of gain, I get this horrible distorted clipping on top of everything. I'm running 2 guitar cables thru the unbalanced outs into the Presonus then firewire into the Macbook, and monitoring with my Sennheiser HD 280 pro headphones thru the Presonus. I've adjusted the input 1 level so I'm not clipping, I don't seem to be clipping thru the Presonus, I've adjusted the output levels and the levels in Logic, and all I get is just really, really distorted junk on pretty much everything, even patches that sounded good thru the guitar rig. I have the option to use XLR cables, would this make a difference?

I've checked the wiki (thanks Yek!) and I don't think I'm doing anything blatantly *wrong*. But I must be. Thanks in advance for any help y'all can provide.
 
If it's clipping, then somewhere you have a level set too high.... as you have heard, the axe-fx is possibly the best direct recording device for guitar ever created.

check these areas:

Input and output knobs on front of unit
Check all of your individual software levels (input gain, levels of your effects, amps, cabs, etc, etc.)
The hardware and software inputs on your audio interface
The levels in your recording software

...I can't claim this next bit is fact, but I've had a few issues using Axe-edit where if you do certain things it can really amp up your sound by doubling the signal or something ... perhaps leave it off and try that next time.

Good luck!
 
@Freqy - I do have a cab sim on, and it's enabled thru the global presets. I'm basically just trying to get a decent mid-gain tone with various amps (Buttery, Plexi, HBE, etc) into 4x12 Greenback cab sim. When running thru my guitar rig I have cab sim disabled.

@sivadyert - I hear ya, I know my levels are way too high somewhere, I just can't for the life of me figure out where. I've tried various combos of bringing them down on the front of the Axe inputs & outputs, in the Presonus software, in Logic, in the amp block. I just can't figure it out. Guess I'll keep stabbing away. I'll try without the Axe-edit sw, thanks for that tip too.

Thanks guys!
 
The Axe's XLR outs are line level not mic level.
Either stick a pad on your audio interface's mic input.
If the interface doesn't have a pad then use its line ins via the Axe's 1/4" outs instead of the XLRs.

Try various cab IRs in the cab block.
If you find a cab sim that's in the ballpark but not there, then stick an EQ after it and tweak more to your liking.
 
Take care of the IR's intrinsic qualities before tweaking the amp, and next tweak it with your ears.

Using the stock IRs, it's like mic'ing a cab without knowing what were the amp settings used as a reference to place the mic and catch the IR. If you look for the right IR according to a specific amp setting (= your settings through your real cab), you'll fail 99.9% of the time.
 
So to summarize your situation: Your main rig involves your Axe-FX inserted into the FX loop of a 50w THD Marshall Plexi clone tube amp, and a guitar cab. Your recorded rig involves just the Axe-FX by itself. Do I have that right?

A patch designed to let a physical tube amp + guitar cab do all the work is going to sound completely different when run direct out of the Axe-FX for recording. What amp block are you using to take the place of the THD? What cab sim are you using to replace the physical guitar cab? You will need an entirely new patch, just for recording, that has an amp block and cab block producing the same tone as your THD and guitar cab. Either that or mic up your guitar cab and send that to your audio interface for recording.

Building amp rigs in the Axe-FX that sound just like a real tube amp and guitar cab is both a science and an art form in itself. Expect to spend quite a bit of time--trial and error--getting the Axe-FX to sound just like your main rig when recording from it direct.
 
speedloader said:
Take care of the IR's intrinsic qualities before tweaking the amp, and next tweak it with your ears.

Using the stock IRs, it's like mic'ing a cab without knowing what were the amp settings used as a reference to place the mic and catch the IR. If you look for the right IR according to a specific amp setting (= your settings through your real cab), you'll fail 99.9% of the time.
Click to expand...

Good point.
Each different cab IR used in the Cab Block will require re-tweaking the Amp Block settings.
 
Thanks for all the help so far. To clarify a bit, I'm not trying to use the same patches thru my guitar rig as I am thru my recording device. I'm creating a new patch (amp->cab), and the signal is just massively hot and I get all kinds of horrible clipping no matter where I set the levels on everything. I should add that I can get a pretty decent clean sound but as soon as I add *any* gain at all it just gets massively buzzy and distorted in a really ugly way.

I think the issue is that my recording interface can not accept line level input. The 2 XLR inputs are mic level, and the other 2 inputs are "Hi-Z" instrument inputs (the ones I've been using). Even though I seem to be getting good levels on the interface and Axe (no obvious clipping), it's apparently still waaaaay too hot going into Logic Express for some reason. Does this sound reasonable? The interface is a POS? Prosunus Inspire 1394.
 
My Presonus Firebox came with a software utility program called Firebox Control.
Firebox Control has the ability to add an input level boost of +12dB.
If you have something similar then make sure that the boost is not active.
 
Also...
Are you sure you aren't clipping the Axe's digital converters?
Make sure the red led indicator on the front of the Axe doesn't light up.
If it does, then turn down the Level parameter in the Amp Block.
Have you tried simply lowering the Level of the Preset to prevent the clipping in Logic?
Have you been successful in the past when recording from other sources into Logic via your interface?
Maybe you've got Logic set up wrong?
What's you I/O Buffer size in Logic's Audio Preferences?
I find that on my iMac (Intel 3.2 GhZ i3) that I can't get any lower than 64 samples or I start getting artifacts that sound very similar to what you're describing.
If your system is more powerful or faster than mine then you might be able to get that number lower.
 
Kush, when I first read the title of your post I thought: Wait a minute. Is that an old thread of mine? Because you've described, almost to the letter, what my experience has been. Your post is so much like what I've gone through, I needn't qualify it any further.

The good news is that I've made some progress. I'm not there yet but I'm getting closer. Hopefully I can save you some time and maybe, we can help each other.

First, search the forum for Shredi Knight's thread about his Mark IV patch. You can also go straight to the wiki because it's all there. I own a Mark IV and so I figured, if this cat has figured out how to get a good Mark IV patch and it's direct, I'm in. I followed those steps and it made a HUGE difference. I stress this because I'd tried a MILLION different things including other folk's patches and nothing helped as much as this did.

Second, I'm fairly certain my interface is my weakest link. I'm currently using an M-Audio 2496 Audiophile. I've had it for years. I'm betting the converters are just not up to par with what's in current interfaces. Two days ago I ordered a Focusrite Saffire 24. I've also ordered a firewire card for my PC that uses a Texas Instruments chip-set so that I know I won't have any issues with the Focusrite. I can't comment on the improvement (if any) since it's not here yet but I certainly will update this thread when I get it.

I haven't given up because A) the Axe sounds so good through a poweramp and 1x12 cabs and B) you can close your eyes and spit and hit a great direct recording on this forum. I know it can be done.

Lastly, I even tried going directly to my monitors and didn't have much success. I think my monitors are weak link #2: M-Audio BX5a. Clean sounds are excellent but gain is for s$#t. Using my Grado SR-60 headphones always sounded better than the monitors. But I'm only changing one component in the chain at a time so that I can tell what the effect is.

Good luck!

Dave
 
I have an M-Audio FastTrack Ultra that I bought last year. Works like a charm with the Axe-FX. I just used Input 1 of the FastTrack, same input I use when plugging a guitar into it. A little input gain adjustment was all that was needed to get perfect audio into Reaper.
 
kush said:
I think the issue is that my recording interface can not accept line level input. The 2 XLR inputs are mic level, and the other 2 inputs are "Hi-Z" instrument inputs (the ones I've been using). Even though I seem to be getting good levels on the interface and Axe (no obvious clipping), it's apparently still waaaaay too hot going into Logic Express for some reason. Does this sound reasonable? The interface is a POS? Prosunus Inspire 1394.
Click to expand...
PresSonus.com said:
Ins and Outs

The front panel of the Inspire 1394 features two custom-designed PreSonus microphone preamplifiers with +48V phantom power and two instrument Hi-Z inputs. The back of the Inspire features selectable line or phono (with RIAA filter) inputs great for all types of keyboards, samplers, drum machines and turntables. Outputs on the Inspire 1394 include RCA unbalanced and mini TRS jacks as well as headphone output.
Click to expand...

You need to use inputs 3 & 4 (back inputs) set up for line input.
 
You're probably right about the level mismatch being the problem. According to the web site, Inputs 3 and 4 on the Inspire can be configured to accept a line level input.
 
It's amazing to me how often the line-level vs. mic-level mismatch issue (still) rises up and bites people in the butt. I sometimes feel like we're stuck in the 1960s...
 
CudBucket said:
First, search the forum for Shredi Knight's thread about his Mark IV patch. You can also go straight to the wiki because it's all there. I own a Mark IV and so I figured, if this cat has figured out how to get a good Mark IV patch and it's direct, I'm in. I followed those steps and it made a HUGE difference. I stress this because I'd tried a MILLION different things including other folk's patches and nothing helped as much as this did.
Click to expand...

Hey thanks man, I'm glad that my tips helped you. The funny part is that I've never actually played a Mark IV (or any Mesa Mark series amp) in my life. I just love that kind of tone. I do really need to pull my 8-track digital recorder out of storage one of these days and see what my Mesa patches sound like going direct into it (I play through through studio monitors).
 
shredi knight said:
Hey thanks man, I'm glad that my tips helped you. The funny part is that I've never actually played a Mark IV (or any Mesa Mark series amp) in my life. I just love that kind of tone. I do really need to pull my 8-track digital recorder out of storage one of these days and see what my Mesa patches sound like going direct into it (I play through through studio monitors).
Click to expand...


Yeah, that thread really did help. The thing that worried me is that I'd never have thought about adjusting half of the parameters you did. With a poweramp/cabs rig, I don't need to hit those parms. But for direct, the tone was so bad... I'm getting my new interface tomorrow so I'm dying to find out what impact that has.

Dave
 
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