Why I prefer using cabs vs. FRFR for live shows

Paperjace

Paperjace

Experienced
I have a couple guitar friends in real life that are thinking of picking up an Axe FX/AX8 and were asking me whether they should buy a guitar cab or a FRFR speaker. I figured I'd share my thoughts on here, as well, as there may be folks who are new to the digital amp modeling world. This info might be obvious to a lot of folks on here, but I've gotten this question a couple times now and I think it's important to point this detail out.

This post is mostly for guitarists that play shows where the sound guy generally mics up guitar cabinets. This is not for guitarists who plan on going direct into the FOH using the Axe FX/AX8.

If you play shows where the sound guy is used to micing things up, use a guitar cabinet with cabinet simulation turned off. Do not use a FRFR speaker. When playing the Axe FX with an FRFR system and cabinet simulation activated, you do not want to mic up an FRFR speaker. This is because the sound coming out of an FRFR speaker is already simulating the sound of a mic'ed up guitar cabinet. Microphones have tonal characteristics and will affect your guitar tone that you've worked so hard for. Unless you're trying to be weird and experimental, micing up an FRFR cabinet should be considered unconventional.

I play a lot of shows with multiple bands that require quick setups and teardowns. To keep things simple and familiar with the sound guys, I prefer to use a 4x12 guitar cab and have them mic up the cab rather than going direct. Plus, you also have the raw power of a guitar cab coming from behind you.

Here's an analogy of what its like micing up an FRFR speaker: You're at a wedding and the DJ has his PA system set up. It's slow dance time and he's going to play "Stairway to Heaven". Instead of plugging his laptop into the audio cable and playing over the PA, he pulls out a boom box and places a Shure SM57 microphone up to the boom box. The audience is now hearing "Stairway to Heaven" playing through a microphone that's affecting the original sound of the song. It sounds like there's a blanket over the PA system now. The bride is now fucking pissed, takes a high heel off, and beans the DJ in the head for ruining the wedding. The DJ gets knocked unconscious, falls onto his table, which knocks over his equipment, which knocks over the tent and buries the people. The DJ equipment short circuits which catches the tent on fire, and then everybody dies a horrible firey death.

Don't mic up your FRFR speakers.
 
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Sharka said:
Oh their out there... I had one this weekend. He was a total douche.
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Well you are effectively saying "because of people like you someone invented this very complicated black box thing I spent mega bucks on, so "do your job" and plug this XLR cable in.......sir"
 
Funeral said:
Slip the guy a $20.
Works every time.
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Absolutely.. make friends as quick as you can. Next best thing to hiring a full time sound man for your band (based on what I've noticed with pro player friends- never experienced that luxury myself)..
 
Ask for 2x XLR and watch the deer in the headlight look on his face. Having to slip a sound guy cash for him to do his job is complete bullshit. I understand it makes the medicine go down but its just the point of it. Its not like the sound guy is going to flip you a 20 for making his job easier. Just saying.
 
Any "sound man" should know what to do when handed a line level output. If they've never dealt with a keyboard or computer/backing track then he's not a "sound man" and should find another job.

I've played many FRFR gigs in the UK and they've never batted an eyelid, I suppose guitar modellers are so ubiquitous these days it's not unusual.
 
lqdsnddist said:
Unplug the SM57 mic from the lead, plug into a DI box with a pad, and then plug in your Axe output using a cab sim/IR. The sound guy will think he's done a great job mic'ing a cab
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All kidding aside, I would never re-wire the crews setup. Just let them do their job and 9 times out of 10, it's a better show.

They usually have reasons for how they setup their PA rig. Not the time for the musicians to "teach" sound reinforcement when they are rigging the show.
 
Funeral said:
Slip the guy a $20.
Works every time.
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Nope, I've worked with an idiot soundman who could make a chorus of angels sound like shit, regardless of how much money you gave him in advance. And he had the absolute worst attitude I've ever run into. Perfect match for his wooden ear, though.
 
How hard is it to unplug his mic cable and plug it to the back of your axe? Just do it. No questions asked.
I play with a real cab too. But I don't mic it. The cab sims go to PA.
Since I play in small pubs, having a mixture of a real cab and cab sims at the same time is the best of both worlds...
 
Reading through some of the posts here, it occurred to me that some of these experiences with sound men may have a lot to do with the locations in which we live. Here in Austin, there are a lot of good/descent sound men (and plenty of not-so-good as well.. as always). Where I grew up, learning to play and gig, they were mostly terrible. Lots of dive bars with crappy PA, etc. I local pro taught me, early on, to try and use the right amp for the room and not rely on PA for my guitar. But that was also way before in-ears and low-volume stages everywhere, etc.
 
I run cab sim to FOH and have my real cab on stage, never came across a sound guy personally who wasn't thrilled to just hand me 2 xlr's and could go back to worrying about the drummer, but if it ever happens, mixing the cab would still work for me. (although losing my stereo delay would really suck, how am I supposed to sound like John Petrucci without that lol)
 
Just imagine if the sound guy came up to you and said, "Here, let me show you how to play that correctly". Most guitar players I know would get a case of the vapors, and then their heads would explode. If you approach most sound people with the preconceived notion that they are incompetent, well, you get what you give.

I always take a moment to get to know the sound guy. Not a long-winded chat, but a cordial greeting to let them know I appreciate them. Works wonders. Before you conclude that I don't have enough experience to know what jerks they are, my first paying gig was in 1964. Been gigging ever since, including almost 15 years professionally. Yes, I have worked with a few very difficult sound guys. But they are a small minority, not the general rule.
 
selta said:
I've yet to find a FOH person who wasn't happy when I told them they didn't have to bother with a mic - just hand me an XLR and I'll give him signal. One less thing for them to think about.
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Andrew Male said:
I've played many FRFR gigs in the UK and they've never batted an eyelid, I suppose guitar modellers are so ubiquitous these days it's not unusual.
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This has been my experience as well - the usual response is 'Great, makes my job easier'
 
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