Why doesn't the Axe-fx sound as good thru headphones

MisterE

MisterE

Fractal Fanatic
I've read it several times we shouldn't tweak when wearing headphones or even high-end IEM's.
But why can a guitar on a cd sound good and the Axe-fx not through headphones?

My sound is great through my B&W's and even when going straight to FOH.
People keep giving me comliments on my sound.
But id doesn't sound nearly as good through my headphones (Sennheiser HD280Pro)
Even through my IEM's (Variphone ES3x) it doesn't sound as warm as through speakers.
 
Because there's no string and body reinforcement. When you play through speakers the sound couples into the guitar body and strings. With headphones you don't get this so the sound is very sterile and lifeless.

Now, if you use speakers during recording and then playback through headphones it will sound fine.
 
wow! that's a great answer! i've always wondered this, since i currently have a pod xt live, and when i use it to jam quietly with headphones, it sounds not nearly as good as through a pa, or the power amp on my Peavey XXX

not to thread steal, but is that the only thing that affects tones? for if so, why isn't direct recording affected? or is it also?

to the starter of this topic, i would imagine that you would wonder this also, if not, just tell me, and i'll edit this part out
 
So, if I understand correctly, it would be better to play live with a monitor to get the "coupling" even if I'm using IEM's?

But I'm not talking about it sounding lifeless. Sterile maybe.
But it seems like the highs are a lot more present when using headphones or IEM's.
It lacks body and warmth.

I'll try a little experiment tomorrow.
I'll put in my IEM's and cranck up the speakers and then turn them off and try to see - or better - hear what difference it makes.
 
Interesting thread. I've noticed my headphones sound kind of funky when I'm playing through them, but they sound better when listening back to tracks I've recorded. I may have to revisit my habit of laying down tracks late at night with headphones on and do all my keeper tracks during the day when I can get a little bit coming back through the speakers. It is kind of a subtle difference, but I think I have noticed what Cliff is talking about.
 
I use a monitoring system in my studio-simple MAckie 1202vlz3 and nice studio monitors. But when it is needed I use the headphone jack on the mackie and the axe sounds "GREAT" I am using Audio-Technica ATH-M50-They are amazing. Got a price match at MF and only paid $109. One of the best deals I ever made. They blow away my trusty Sony M<DR 7605's.
 
Same thing happens when you run IEM's with no stage monitoring.

It's simple physics.

If you want loud electric guitar tone to sound and feel right, you need volume. Without it, you can get the sound ala something like the Axe-FX, but the feel will be hindered. Nature of the beast.
 
So if I record a track with the coupling interaction and include a dry track then re-amp that dry track direct through the Axe will it lose the benefit of the coupling effect?
 
I was wondering why if I record my guitars without speakers but headphone monitoring sounds like crap, the same using speakers and then when I play thru headphones sounds great.

The same at rehershals, I tried to monitor myself thru IEM and I didn't liked it. One day, I had a new pair of in ear headphones and decided to give them a try because they sounded great for playing music. I tried and yes, sounded great, so I began thinking that the problem was the quality of the headphones. So, I got off my guitar to go out to smoke and know what ? My guitar had been played thru speakers too all the time, I didn't remember to disconnect them. Back then, speakers disconnected, and the same pairs of headphones that sounded amazing 10 minutes ago then sounded like crap again....

It's not only the better explanation Cliff, it's the only one possible.
 
...but that's not the only bad thing about headphones.

To me, it's almost impossible to tweak the presets volumes with it.
I can audition and tweak really hard with headphones, but when I plug into real cabs, the volumes are still very different.
 
randombastage said:
So if I record a track with the coupling interaction and include a dry track then re-amp that dry track direct through the Axe will it lose the benefit of the coupling effect?
Click to expand...

But that dry track has still been recorded with a guitar that has had the benefit of the 'coupling interaction', so reamping would still sound fine.
 
randombastage said:
So if I record a track with the coupling interaction and include a dry track then re-amp that dry track direct through the Axe will it lose the benefit of the coupling effect?
Click to expand...

Yea, the reamp track won't 'feel' right to the player....

...cause it's more a 'feel' issue than a 'tone' issue.
 
Not sure I'm quite getting this. Like someone said earlier, the tone really is different through headphones. It's not just the feel, at least in my experience. Then again, I've only plugged my headphones directly into the output of the Axe with no headphone amp or anything, not sure if that would be the problem.
This makes me wonder about direct recording too, or even recording with your amp in a different room and monitoring it through headphones. You can get some great tones that way but both situations would seem to lack the coupling that Cliff mentioned.
 
I've tried it with my speakers (B&W DM602) pretty loud and my IEM4s.
Didn't make that much difference to me.
It's not what I'm looking for.
What I meant was that headphones seem to emphasise a lot of the high frequencies.
My sound is good through the speakers and PA and similar to what I'm hearing on a cd but through headphones it's a lot harsher.
Not so much through IEM's.
I'm using the Radley PEQ thing and checked with a filter. There's nothing coming through over 6000Hz.
 
I had read about the don't use headphones thing before i bought the axe, but i knew i would be using headphones anyway cause i have to at night.
So i was a bit worried about it, but i had been using headphones with my other preamps from my mixer for a long time, and those sounded just fine, so i kinda disregarded that notion, and that you shouldn't or can't or whatever use headphones to build patches and have them transfer to live.

It's not true at all to me. The patches i have made for playing with my band at home in headphones when i got to practice were near spot on, the only thing i had to change was a cab sim to better match the tonality of the PA for my direct line, and fiddle with the bass or mids a bit thru my 4x12 cab, but not even much fiddling at all.
I had just anticipated that there would be much more bass with my cab and the pa, so i rolled it off a bit in the headphones, an lo and behold when i got to practice i ended up putting the bass back in, and changing the cab sim to better match the 15" speakers of the PA, it sounded a bit boxy, which i blame on the PA speaker/cabs we have, i think the 15's made it sound a bit boxy - otherwise it was golden, i still use that same patch.
I tried doing some from scratch at practice and honestly, besides having the distraction of other people there, it was still harder to dial it in at a loud volume ect, i prefer to just do it at home.

I guess if you know what your speakers are gonna give you at your live room you can keep that in mind and get very close to a useable live patch with headphones.

Plugging into the axe with heaphones i never tried, wouldn't expect much from that, get a mixer or interface to plug them into.
I'm using an alesis mulitix 8 usb 2.0 direct to pc, and a pair of ATH-M40fs headphones. Sound is great.

Anyway, works for me - no problemo.
 
I had not heard the "don't use headphones to create and tweak your patches" warning. I just got my Axe and have only had it hooked up to a Presonus headphone amp and AT studio headphones. I think it sounds fantastic like that. I plan on getting it hooked up to both a PA cabinet and my amp and cab in ht enear future when I start creating my own patches. I am still waiting for my midi merge unit to get here so I can create the patches and use my foot controller together.
 
It may well be that through headphones and IEM's especially, all that's wrong with your sound is emphasized.
I tweaked with my IEM's today and this is what I did:
- lower the cut-off frequency in the PEQ, lower treble and presence.
- lower master volume, raised drive a little bit, and adjusted the level to compensate the lowering of the master volume
It seemed the sound was less harsh, still with a bit too much highs though but better than before.
Then, when listening through the speakers, I found the sound to be sweeter.
It wasn't cutting through as much but it was definitely sweeter and more pleasing.
I don't want to rush to conclusions just yet, but it seems that, if it sounds good through IEM's it can sound good through speakers but not the other way around.
Perhaps my B&W's are colouring a bit too much.
I've looked at a frequency plot and compared it to that from yamaha MT7's, which seem to be a lot flatter.
Perhaps I should look into something like that.
I haven't found any frequency plots for my IEM's though but they are three way Variphone Es3x.
I would appreciate if any knowledgable person, perhaps even Cliff would chime in to tell me what the possible pitflalls when using headphones and/or IEM's compared to speakers.
 
mwc2112 said:
randombastage said:
So if I record a track with the coupling interaction and include a dry track then re-amp that dry track direct through the Axe will it lose the benefit of the coupling effect?
Click to expand...

But that dry track has still been recorded with a guitar that has had the benefit of the 'coupling interaction', so reamping would still sound fine.
Click to expand...

I got a ? about this coupling concept. Does this essentialy mean that its the combination of the exterior speaker at loud volumes combining with the iem's direct sound? This isnt mean your recording a cab or PA and mixing it with the direct sound right?
 
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