Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China?

M

Marshall30thAnn

Member
I don’t mean to be disrespectful, I am just curious. I figured that like al boutique type gear, or high end stuff, allot of individual work goes into them in the USA which drives up the price (like Mesa, Rivera, etc...). I got mine today and they are made in China, so how can the $800 dollars be justified when most gear mass produced in China sells for a fraction of that?
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

How many Tube powered FR monitors are out there ?
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

This SANSAMP tech21 product is the only thing I know of that is close to what the Atomics functionality is:

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/power ... ine60.html

I wonder what a line6 modler would sound like out of the atomic cabinets. In other words : how much of this great sound is the AXE and how much is the ATOMICS.

I do love the sound of this combo. ..but I am curious as to why the stuff line6 was doing with the alchemist guy never took off. (it was modler + tube amp)
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

You can always vote with your wallet, and buy something else. You could find something that works better, for you, at a lower price. But you should at least give them a fair shake, on the 15-day money back guarantee. Ask yourself, is it worth the return shipping charges, to be able to evaluate the Atomic Reactor FR with your current rig? Was it worth the same risk, with the Axe-Fx?
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

I have done a side-by-side A/B of my Reactor with the Power Engine 60. It made me replace the speaker in the PE with an EV Force12. It still didn't hold a candle. I gave 2 of them away to a good friend.

I've also heard the Pod HD through my Reactor. It sounded loud and clear-- I am very surprised more Pod owners don't flock to this product. That said, the experience of demo'ing that unit made me want to wash my ears out in a mountain stream.
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

Marshall30thAnn said:
I don’t mean to be disrespectful, I am just curious. I figured that like al boutique type gear, or high end stuff, allot of individual work goes into them in the USA which drives up the price (like Mesa, Rivera, etc...). I got mine today and they are made in China, so how can the $800 dollars be justified when most gear mass produced in China sells for a fraction of that?
Click to expand...
No disrespect taken.

The Reactor is different than other powered monitors out there in that it is tube-powered. This in and of itself adds to the cost. Furthermore, it’s costly to manufacture because we don’t skimp on the quality of the components we use, for example: the premium JJ tubes, the high quality transformers or the marine grade birch plywood. We also pay for extra measures to be taken in the build process and for the triple redundant QC processes we insist on.

If we made the same product in the US, it would be nearly twice the price. I know this because I had it quoted at several US contract manufacturers. I would prefer that the product was made in the US for patriotic reasons but it simply wouldn’t be a viable product from a cost standpoint. Additionally, I can honestly say that it would not be of higher quality. The execution is exactly what we’ve specified. We work closely with both US and Chinese contract manufacturers and I can tell you that on many occasions I am more pleased with the output from overseas. Sad but true.

A word to the wise - Don’t automatically assume that a product is fully made in the US or elsewhere because it says so on the label. Most people not directly involved with the manufacturing process don’t realize what many company’s do - which is order all the parts (sometimes mostly assembled) from China or overseas then do some token “final assembly” here (like putting a chassis in a wood box) and calling it “Made in the USA” … as if it was all done here. I personally find this misleading.

The common misconception that a product made in China is cheap or is not as high quality as a product made in the US or certain other places just isn’t necessarily the case anymore.

-TK
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

I see an analogy with Apple products. All made in China with the latest existing technologies. But wait à minute... we are talking about à tube amp... Not really THE latest technology on earth. But still with a lot of religious believers.
Really compelling is the statement that in the USA the quality control, read skilled workmanship, is lower than the Chinese.

So If you want cheaper: buy à Dell :mrgreen:
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

Indeed. Those Chinese work their asses off for a penny. They have to just to survive. If they goof they get fired.
Could you see Westerners do that? Westerners know how to whine and bitch, though. Superior feelings about Western-made products are mostly based on exactly that: Patriotism.
Meanwhile the Chinese get a stranglehold on our market. Pretty soon it'll be the Peoples Republic of the World.

Let's just hope the Chinese workers get a bit more vocal and go insist on better circumstances and compensation. Stuff will get more expensive, but we have more of a chance competing.

We're living in a bubble, guys!



Anybody check the US debt lately? To whom do you think much of that debt is owed?
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

Dutch said:
Indeed. Those Chinese work their asses off for a penny. They have to just to survive. If they goof they get fired.
Could you see Westerners do that? Westerners know how to whine and bitch, though. Superior feelings about Western-made products are mostly based on exactly that: Patriotism.
Meanwhile the Chinese get a stranglehold on our market. Pretty soon it'll be the Peoples Republic of the World.

Let's just hope the Chinese workers get a bit more vocal and go insist on better circumstances and compensation. Stuff will get more expensive, but we have more of a chance competing.

We're living in a bubble, guys!



Anybody check the US debt lately? To whom do you think much of that debt is owed?
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this but what some may consider "whining" and "bitching" others may rightly see in my opinion as workers demanding what's right. Yes we would have to pay more for American-made products but I for one am ready and willing to do so. The case that Chinese workers (underpaid slaves) take their job more seriously and may make a better product solely out of fear of starving to death isn't really anything to celebrate. There isn't a doubt in my mind that an American worker can produce a product of the highest quality but he is much more willing, as he SHOULD be, to demand a fair wage. To not do so would be to throw in the towel.

All that being said, yes I agree that the Chinese worker must demand more if we have any chance of competing from a manufacturing standpoint. It's manufacturing today, eventually it will be the technological side as well. Then we're toast.
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

What an honor. Tom King answering my post! and what an educational reply. I never thought about any of that manufactoring stuff that way. It does make sense. And this is a VERY unique cabinet indeed. Your guys are visionaries and pioneers! BTY: I love the cabinets. Especially when I go to pick one up and move it :)

Everyone here makes good points also. On the one hand the "shot fired - heard round the world" was not in China, and folks here have steped up and fought for alot of what we have. on the other hand, weve all been in stores, or seen road crews, with one person working and 9 people socailizing....... and it would seem like the business model here is a little out of whack.

Tom King makes some very good points though about the "shake an bake" some compnies are doing with that "made in USA" sticker. My fantasy of Mr. Engals from "little house on the prarie" making the amp by hand , in his workshop, is probobly just that: a fantasy :)
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

Tom King said:
The Reactor is different than other powered monitors out there in that it is tube-powered. This in and of itself adds to the cost. Furthermore, it’s costly to manufacture because we don’t skimp on the quality of the components we use, for example: the premium JJ tubes, the high quality transformers or the marine grade birch plywood. We also pay for extra measures to be taken in the build process and for the triple redundant QC processes we insist on.
-TK
Click to expand...

I'd gladly buy a lower priced solid state version. :)
 
Re: Why do the Atomic Cabinets cost so much if made in China

iceman said:
Dutch said:
Indeed. Those Chinese work their asses off for a penny. They have to just to survive. If they goof they get fired.
Could you see Westerners do that? Westerners know how to whine and bitch, though. Superior feelings about Western-made products are mostly based on exactly that: Patriotism.
Meanwhile the Chinese get a stranglehold on our market. Pretty soon it'll be the Peoples Republic of the World.

Let's just hope the Chinese workers get a bit more vocal and go insist on better circumstances and compensation. Stuff will get more expensive, but we have more of a chance competing.

We're living in a bubble, guys!



Anybody check the US debt lately? To whom do you think much of that debt is owed?
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this but what some may consider "whining" and "bitching" others may rightly see in my opinion as workers demanding what's right. Yes we would have to pay more for American-made products but I for one am ready and willing to do so. The case that Chinese workers (underpaid slaves) take their job more seriously and may make a better product solely out of fear of starving to death isn't really anything to celebrate. There isn't a doubt in my mind that an American worker can produce a product of the highest quality but he is much more willing, as he SHOULD be, to demand a fair wage. To not do so would be to throw in the towel.

All that being said, yes I agree that the Chinese worker must demand more if we have any chance of competing from a manufacturing standpoint. It's manufacturing today, eventually it will be the technological side as well. Then we're toast.
Click to expand...


Well put.. But the one thing left out and this is the way I see it, is for every working slave in China there are 50,000 more waiting for him to screw up and get fired. The main reason the labor rates are the way they are.
 
Because there is no competition is the simple answer. If you dont feel its worth it, dont buy it. I hear lots of people whine about the cost of the axefx all the time . I think it is worth every penny!!!

This is not directed at you for asking the question its just something I felt like expressing.

I have never tried the atomic amps so I am not sure if they are worth it, but if they are a partnership with fractal I would assume the quality is worth it, even if they make a little money off of it.

You get what you pay for!!!
 
iceman said:
I agree with most of this but what some may consider "whining" and "bitching" others may rightly see in my opinion as workers demanding what's right. Yes we would have to pay more for American-made products but I for one am ready and willing to do so. The case that Chinese workers (underpaid slaves) take their job more seriously and may make a better product solely out of fear of starving to death isn't really anything to celebrate. There isn't a doubt in my mind that an American worker can produce a product of the highest quality but he is much more willing, as he SHOULD be, to demand a fair wage. To not do so would be to throw in the towel.

All that being said, yes I agree that the Chinese worker must demand more if we have any chance of competing from a manufacturing standpoint. It's manufacturing today, eventually it will be the technological side as well. Then we're toast.
Click to expand...

The assertion that US made = better, or xxx made = better is not always true. I have worked for many manufacturing companies and what it boils down to is company policy! If the company is more interested in a profit and willing to cut corners then you'll get a crappy product. Paying for quality is a fact of life regardless of where it is made.

I'll give you an example. I worked at Shure for a while and the engineers were telling me a story about the old mics (Mash era) that you hold in your hand...long story short is the Chinese got hold of it and replicated it down to a manufacturing tolerance glitch. The wild thing is the replica sounded better than the original since they were not familiar with the unique tone caused by the original design glitch.

Many "US made" products are actually "assembled" in the US, unfortunately. At some point in a global economy companies need to focus on design and technology, leaving the manufacturing to who makes it better and cheaper. If you insist, like Tom King said, that the xxx use high quality components and plenty of QA... you will have an awesome and economic product.

Our edge in the US is the ability to design and advance products. Look at the Axe-Fx product! It is not the components that make it what it is (well not entirely) but the advanced modeling and programming. That is where our edge is.

I'll be quiet now. Sorry! ;)
 
pulverizer said:
Because there is no competition is the simple answer. If you dont feel its worth it, dont buy it. I hear lots of people whine about the cost of the axefx all the time . I think it is worth every penny!!!

This is not directed at you for asking the question its just something I felt like expressing.

I have never tried the atomic amps so I am not sure if they are worth it, but if they are a partnership with fractal I would assume the quality is worth it, even if they make a little money off of it.

You get what you pay for!!!
Click to expand...

I am new to Axe Fx and atomic amps and they are worth every penny. I got an active cab a couple of weeks ago and they sound heavenly. They are a perfect match to the Axe. I have mine sitting over a 4x12 with V30s and I get as good if not better sound out of it. Again, sound preference is personal. From where I stand it does the job for me.
 
Marshall30thAnn said:
This SANSAMP tech21 product is the only thing I know of that is close to what the Atomics functionality is:

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/power ... ine60.html

I wonder what a line6 modler would sound like out of the atomic cabinets. In other words : how much of this great sound is the AXE and how much is the ATOMICS.

I do love the sound of this combo. ..but I am curious as to why the stuff line6 was doing with the alchemist guy never took off. (it was modler + tube amp)
Click to expand...

The Power Engine is not even close to the functionality of the Atomic. The PE is just about the furthest thing imaginable from FRFR. It doesn't sound bad necessarily (that's too subjective), but it is not even remotely close to flat response IMO. I don't own the Atomic, but I have used the PEs in the past. It's apples and oranges.

D
 
Marshall30thAnn said:
how can the $800 dollars be justified when most gear mass produced in China sells for a fraction of that?
Click to expand...

Whyddya think? To finance Cliff Chase's 10,000 sq. ft. mansion, yacht(s?), fleet of Italian race cars, and fuel for the Fractal Lear jet. Did I leave anything out?

LLLLLLLLLLLOL!
 
@ Tom (or anyone else who may know): Why doesn't Atomic also sell replacement tubes for the Reactor? Where's the best place to get exact replacements?

-Eric
 
VHDon said:
+1....thought something was in the works???
Click to expand...

Correct: It is called the MATRIX XT-800. Only it is not made in China :mrgreen It is made in the UK. Hope that is not a problem :)

Growing number of people are following the white rabbit!
 
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