Why did my playing hit the wall? The answer was a ghastly surprise.

[Archie Bunker]

I started playing in 1980 at age 12 and developed into an intermediate player. Having many other interests, I was unable to devote as much time as I should have to being a musician. My love for the arts and music is so strong that it sometimes hurts.

Things changed about 7 years ago when my luthier got a PRS SE Custom 24 on a trade. He set it up beautifully and I was immediately smitten with it. As a big VH fan (through Diver Down, after which I bailed), I played Charvels with one H and one vol, but they were not the best guitars for me. I learned I preferred a different radius and frets and a bird-inlaid monster was born. Now there are so many Core, S2, and SE PRS in this house that sometimes I'll actually lose some of 'em for a while. How strange it is to be looking for a guitar in the same way people might scour the house for their misplaced keys or phone.

The PRS thing revitalized my desire to be an even better no-talent amateur hack than before and things moved along well for a year or two, then I stalled and couldn't figure out why. I'd watch great players like Petrucci, Bumblefoot (WOW!), Govan, Dweezil, etc. and while I was realistic about my zero-point-zero percent odds of attaining their skill levels, I knew I should be able to play a good deal of that stuff. My eyes, mind, and heart were all over it, yet the wires from my brain to hands didn't seem quite right. I chalked it up to plain aging, a lack of virtuoso talent, and perhaps residuals from a simple herniated cervical disk surgery 1991.

Wow. That surgery was over 30 years ago. How time flies. Death stalks us like a jungle cat. A damn jungle cat, I tells ya. But, I digress......

Last year I grew increasingly aware of more symptoms. Clumsiness and action tremor in hands, an intermittent dreadful whole body malaise that defies description, strange torso pains, L side of neck and shoulder pain, numbness and tingling along L ulnar nerve path, upper body weakness esp. triceps and delts, weird urinary urgency, and a change in carnal prowess from apocalyptic to merely quite reliable, but not a lock. Chalked up most of it to aging (53), for none of it was severe unlike with the aforementioned neck injury that rendered me razed for a couple weeks until surgery. If that's aging, it sucks even worse than many bemoan.

Also had very strange problem clearing my throat and swallowing pills smoothly as if there was a speed bump in there.

In early Sept 2021 we took a road trip to HOU to see the beauty + savagery uber-colossus known as Between the Buried and Me, aka BtBaM. I was at the edge of the pit during an expected no-mosh stretch when this overstimulated douche canoe slammed into me blindside with enormous force. It was like I'd been hit by a jetliner at cruising speed. Nobody else was moshing. Why do people insist on doing such things? SIGH

The next day I felt a strange kind of lousy. Nothing new other than a rise in intensity. Was functional, but clearly unwell. That led to various clinicians, studies, and much shoulder-shrugging. As the process progressed, I finally got my answer and it explained everything.

Many dig playing medical detective. I'll give the clearly-sharper-than-avg souls in this forum a crack at this nut as I compose the remainder to post shortly, revealing the answer.

Whaddaya reckon was afoul with me? One friend quipped that I'd so many guitars that my hands had a panic attack. Nice try, but, uh......no. If anything, the guitars were protection from panic and the issues involved much more than merely my hands.

So.......WTF?

For the record, Fractal plays a significant role in this, uh, adventure.

 

[Ron_R]

Without an actual physical examination, and a true sit down to ask about 1500 questions, this can be just about to do with your nervous system or musculature. From a very mild case of Muscular Dystrophy, to Multiple Sclerosis, begins of Parkinson's, all the way to early stages of ALS. It could also be early Fibromyalgia. Too many potential differential diagnoses, again without, a sit down chat, hands on the patient, and potentially some testing like an MRI or CT of your brain, or Nerve Conduction Velocity testing of your extremities. Muscle and nerve biopsy may be in order as well.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Without an actual physical examination, and a true sit down to ask about 1500 questions, this can be just about to do with your nervous system or musculature. From a very mild case of Muscular Dystrophy, to Multiple Sclerosis, begins of Parkinson's, all the way to early stages of ALS. It could also be early Fibromyalgia. Too many potential differential diagnoses, again without, a sit down chat, hands on the patient, and potentially some testing like an MRI or CT of your brain, or Nerve Conduction Velocity testing of your extremities. Muscle and nerve biopsy may be in order as well.

Thanks for your reply, Ron, but I'm gonna pass on those biopsies - as indicated in both the title and the OP, the answer is already known. Treatment has occurred - medical bills for January alone were over $400,000 (or, if you prefer, over 130 new Axe-Fx III + FC-12 combos).

The point is to cut a long post at least in half, give my esteemed peers here a shot a figuring it out, and offer some knowledge likely to help others.

I'll post the rest of the story later today after I deal with the friggin' washing machine that just burned up after only 27 years of use. When machines, be they human or inorganic, get upset, trouble abounds.

 

[Ron_R]

Thanks for your reply, Ron, but I'm gonna pass on those biopsies - as indicated in both the title and the OP, the answer is already known. Treatment has occurred - medical bills for January alone were over $400,000 (or, if you prefer, over 130 new Axe-Fx III + FC-12 combos).

The point is to cut a long post at least in half, give my esteemed peers here a shot a figuring it out, and offer some knowledge likely to help others.

I'll post the rest of the story later today after I deal with the friggin' washing machine that just burned up after only 27 years of use. When machines, be they human or inorganic, get upset, trouble abounds.

The internet is a bad place to offer medical advice to others. What works for one, can potentially harm another. Leave the medicine to the doctors.

 

[Archie Bunker]

The internet is a bad place to offer medical advice to others. What works for one, can potentially harm another. Leave the medicine to the doctors.

Thanks, but wrong answer - the internet, like all media, is a source of information for most any matter. How one chooses to use it is another thing. Frankly, I'm at a loss as to how sound advice magically becomes unsound simply because a network cable was involved.

Kindly understand that I'm not aiming to give direct treatment advice or control any surgical robots from my desk, but rather to point out something that can fly under the radar for too long resulting in a serious, even grave matter. Please realize that offering knowledge is NOT offering advice.

Thanks again, though, for......uh, well, uh......offering me medical advice on the internet

It's worth mentioning that had I listened to the first round of doctors, I likely would have ended up dead - they screwed the pooch so hard I can still hear the poor thing yelping. Thanks to THE INTERNET, I found a MUCH better treatment path.

A similar situation occurred years ago with my dear girlfriend - had I accepted the first opinion and not hit THE INTERNET, she, and quite possibly I would not be alive today. Instead, I put a stop to a bitter eight year trip through the gates of hell caused by a veritable orgasm of medical mismanagement.

Furthermore, I've saved more than a few people's lives on the internet and spared many others much cost and suffering by spurring them to examine more options. Misdiagnosis, mismanagement, and needless suffering are pet causes of mine after weathering and witnessing so much abysmal performance from a long list of clinicians, see.

Things are more complex than many realize. Many times, unfortunately, the doctors have been wrong and I (and many MANY others) was right. I'll never forget when my mom was dying of an easily-diagnosed condition and a top-notch hospital's ER sent her home with Valium, insisting she merely had anxiety. Sure she did - there's something inherently anxious about careening toward a slab in the morgue. I correctly diagnosed her later that night at AGE ELEVEN and called an ambulance in defiance of her protests. Another hour or two and she would have been deader than Peking duck.

As a keen student of the human condition both as a layman and as a member of the (mental) healthcare system for decades, I've learned a thang or three. Of course, feel free to disregard the info I post later today.

Q: What do you call someone who graduated dead last in their medical school class?
A: Doctor.

Best wishes and good health to ya, Ron. And, thanks a million for your well-wishes.

Oh......wait

 

[FractalAudio]

You have another herniated disk, known as adjacent segment disease. Probably C6-7. Your symptoms are indicative of cervical stenosis and neuropathy.

 

[Mohi]

You have another herniated disk, known as adjacent segment disease. Probably C6-7. Your symptoms are indicative of cervical stenosis and neuropathy.

My current condition. Tomorrow second PRP session, and if it does not work after the third, surgery. I hate growing old.

 

[Archie Bunker]

You have another herniated disk, known as adjacent segment disease. Probably C6-7. Your symptoms are indicative of cervical stenosis and neuropathy.

BAM! That's but some of it, but you're certainly on the right track. Well done, sir (or ma'am).

And since I have the big guy's (or gal's) ear here, I have never seen any company do as fine a job as Fractal. For me, a new customer, it's been life-changing. The vision of my ideal rig that I've been chasing for decades has finally been realized. For the first time, I'm 1000% satisfied. More on that to come. Thanks, Fractal. Wow. Just wow.

I'll get the whole story up shortly. It's a doozy and again, had I listened to the first group of sawbones, I'd have been in deep manure and then some.

 

[Archie Bunker]

My current condition. Tomorrow second PRP session, and if it does not work after the third, surgery. I hate growing old.

Hi, Mohi. My ancestors come from your area. Very best wishes for the least unpleasantness your situation can allow. This can be a challenging road.

 

[FractalAudio]

BAM! That's but some of it, but you're certainly on the right track. Well done, sir (or ma'am).

And since I have the big guy's (or gal's) ear here, I have never seen any company do as fine a job as Fractal. For me, a new customer, it's been life-changing. The vision of my ideal rig that I've been chasing for decades has finally been realized. For the first time, I'm 1000% satisfied. More on that to come. Thanks, Fractal. Wow. Just wow.

I'll get the whole story up shortly. It's a doozy and again, had I listened to the first group of sawbones, I'd have been in deep manure and then some.

I suffer the same affliction so I'm somewhat versed.

 

[henryrobinett]

I was going to say lower lumbar disc 5. But you know it could also be thyroid. I have similar thing. No surgery for me. Chiropractic, massage. MI have spondy.

 

[Archie Bunker]

We continue:

A very respected orthopedic surgeon rx'd physical therapy, a position I found ludicrous, but I went along. 12 wasted visits and $5000 later, he wanted to do another 12. I refused and insisted on MRI of my spine. The PT guy suspected a pinched nerve at C6. He was right, for bare bones starters......

Immediately upon returning home from the MRI I popped the disk in and the second I scrolled to the middle of the T2 sagittal images, my heart sank.



Those white vertical lines are spozda to be thick and unbroken. Crud! My spinal cord was getting crushed in at least eight places by.....drum roll, please:

CERVICAL SPINAL STENOSIS.

"Stenosis" simply means "narrowing." Spinal stenosis is the narrowing of the spinal cord canal and/or the foramen through which the nerve roots pass. it's quite common, can exist without being a serious problem, yet is a leading cause of paralysis in older people. Youngsters prefer to land in wheelchairs via trauma while we old folk favor illness.

And, to the left of the stenosis nightmare is a hot mess of bone spurs projecting out to the front.

I met with the spine surgeon's PA for all of ten minutes. It was a grave matter with narrowing almost to 4mm with anything under 12mm alarming. A sneeze, fender bender, or even looking up at a bird could cause sudden paralysis. She asked if I wanted a two C5-7 or three C4-7 level ACDF (anterior cervical disk, uh, something or other...oh yeah - FUSION) surgery. She recommended the latter. Surgery was scheduled for Dec 13 just over a month away. I think she muttered something about a big bone spur. The huge orthopedic practice reminded me of a double drive-in McD's at noon. Shudder. Nothing felt right about this.

The sawbones checked out as solid, but the thought of a man I'd never met removing some of my spine, working in very tight, vital spaces with a glorified Dremel, and driving 8 screws into my neck was troubling. I discussed it with friends and one especially astute chap suggested I look into ultrasonic spine surgery. His uncle had complex cervical woes and traveled to Florida for surgery with great success. He found out from a friend in Europe who made the trip. The most accomplished surgeon in the world for my situation was said to be a fellow named Cantor.

I researched him to the extreme, researched the procedures and complication rates, went to the medical school and read peer-reviewed studies, contacted former patients, etc. A triple ACDF can't be undone and I took the matter very seriously. The vibe I remained not cool, self-preservation instinct kicking and screaming.

Contacted Cantor Spine Institute in Florida, transmitted MRI, had Zoom consultation. Very serious and complex matter. A triple ACDF, which is done from the front, was unlikely the best choice. Dr. Cantor ordered CT scan. Another consultation. It was very bad. Canal and foramen stenosis ranging from moderate up high to profound down low. Massive bone spur complexes and facet arthritis. Kyphosis. Spondylosis. Ossification of the posterior longitudinal ligament aka OPLL. Sketchy 1991 attempted posterior decompression.

A big bucket of bummer. How I managed to accomplish what I did while afflicted with this for years remains a mystery. That's one of the things that can make stenosis so dangerous - one is often reasonably functional while actually very sick.

He made it clear that the only way to address this properly was with a dual anterior/posterior approach. Either a single or double fusion from the front, depending on what he finds in there, and a massive intervention from the back. A lesser approach would not only leave several serious issues ignored, but also would lead to premature failure of the already-compromised C3-4. The result would be a host of severe woes and a succession of surgeries with high odds of a poor quality of life. If the compressions are resolved, the surgery is considered a "success," but often the patient is left ravaged by old school techniques.

Aside from his vast expertise in spinal surgery, Cantor's hallmark is the BoneScalpel, an ultrasonic cutting tool that replaces the starkly disturbing rotating burr "Dremel" cutter. The burr is hoppy, grabby, and decimates any structure it touches. The BoneScalpel can touch central nervous system and vascular structures without harming them, yet slices right through bone and scar tissue, allowing much more thorough, safer cleanout in tight spaces, much less blood loss, faster recovery. It's the future of spinal surgery, just as ultrasonic tech changed dental hygiene and fracture cast removal.

T'was a slam dunk. I cancelled Dec TX, scheduled Jan 20 surgery in Ft. Lauderdale, made travel arrangements. Surgery TX would have cost me tire wear and a half gallon of gas, nothing more. The FL thing would be quite expensive. No problemo - my neck is bloody well worth it.

Two surgeries in one morning, one anesthesia. Do the back, then reposition and do the front. Never have I heard of such a thing.

TX doc called the same day, alarmed at the cancellation. He laid a stream of warnings on me and suggested I come in for a consultation during our almost 40m phone call. No problem - the more opinions, the better and I'd at least like to meet the man, for my lumbar is screwed, too (but that's a different post, LOL). He came off very well in the call but made a total ass of himself at the meeting a few days later.

• Didn't bother to read my file before rushing into the room. Didn't recognize my somewhat unusual name, didn't know I had been on his surgery list and cancelled, and didn't remember our very recent long phone conversation. I let him yap for a few, then dropped the bomb. Boy, was he em-bare-assed and then some. Always at least skim a patient's file before engaging them. I hear there are these machines with screens that make it rather easy. It's said they work for finding porn, too. Just sayin'.
• Said ultrasonic spine surgery was a gimmick, likened it to laser spine surgery, said I was making a terrible mistake. Patently absurd on the gimmick part.
• Warned that if I came home and had a clot or hematoma, I'd be screwed and nobody would treat me. HUH? Patently absurd. Those are treated by emergency physicians, not spine surgeons. What a putz.
• He and his PA gave conflicting info about surgery and recovery.
• When I politely challenged some of his statements, he got agitated. Big time not cool.
• Insisted I'd have to stay in FL for at least six weeks. Patently absurd. Arrived FL Jan 16, surgery Jan 20, home Jan 28, attended TOOL concert Jan 31 day 11 post-op.

AND......

\m/ Partied in parking lot before TOOL concert, day 11 \m/

Dr. Tex was originally gonna meet me for the first time the morning of surgery. By the time Dr. C cut me, we had spoken for a good two hours and he's a very busy man. The paradigm there is to avoid surgery (not an option for me), spare structure, spare function, treat the whole body with diet, etc., and lay a smackdown on the pathology. The team there remembered me and my guitars - I was a person, not just a MRI and paycheck. The moment I made the switch, I heaved a big sigh of relief, no longer terrified (and I'm not a nervous person).

In 6 weeks or so I had to wait for surgery, my condition worsened to where I could barely play my guitars. Dropped the soap in the shower 5 times once. Drop stuff, cuss. Drop more stuff, cuss more. Try to eat soup, fling it about, cuss. Yes, my world was a shaky, foulmouthed place with abundant bending over. Even my pet snakes were bewildered by my decline. January 20 could not come fast enough even though there was a significant risk of serious neuropathy after such a substantial decompression.

Before leaving, I added another PRS to the pile, a SE Hollowbody II Piezo, my third HB but first piezo. New condition, $1200 local on CL. YOWZA! I was likely to be challenged mightily during recovery and rehab and "Piezo Pete" would be my motivational guitar. A guy needs all the help he can get.

I'm fresh meat and can't post links, but if this matter is of interest to you, relevant YT vids are entitled:

- Dr. Cantor demonstrates tools used in spinal surgery


- What is cervical stenosis? Jeffrey Cantor, MD



The first vid is amazing, the second is long but extremely informative, the best I've seen on cervical stenosis.

And this here is what iced it for me.
- Dr. Kirk Chung's Testimonial


Today is day 46. 6w post-op appt was last Fri. Next post will explain what they found, how it went, how it's going, and how Fractal ended up playing a significant role.

SPOILER: EXPECT MORE. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. SOMETIMES THE CUSTOMARY PATH IS JUST FINE. SOMETIMES IT IS THE ROAD TO RUIN. DON'T JUST BLINDLY TAKE ADVICE AND PROCEED.

THIS AIN'T MY FIRST RODEO.

 

[Archie Bunker]

I suffer the same affliction so I'm somewhat versed.

Drag. Sorry to read that. I'm having a hard time bringing it up without it raining people similarly (to widely various degrees, of course) afflicted. Best wishes and.....I hate to beat this horse too much, but thanks, Fractal, right down to the double-boxing of the FC-13 Mk II. People and companies that hit grand slams rock. Those who suck, suck.

Feel free to discuss how your experience has been if you've a spare moment.

 

[Archie Bunker]

I was going to say lower lumbar disc 5. But you know it could also be thyroid. I have similar thing. No surgery for me. Chiropractic, massage. MI have spondy.

Henry, fellow spondy fellow, interestingly I've serious lower lumbar, upper sac issues, too, but nothing like NeckTastrophe (or, how about NeckNado?). I'm now assessing what was messin' with what now that one has been treated. It would strongly appear that list of symptoms in my OP was entirely or almost entirely from the cervical zone.

Lumbar just hurts and zaps me sometimes. A long plane ride or concert in a bad chair can be a trial. It needs attention.

The first outstanding symptom was pain in the thyroid area, both sides but more L. We were on it like a duck on a junebug, all well there. Then the epic hunt began, and just about all roads surprisingly led straight to my damn neck. Best wishes, Henry. More to come.......

 

[Archie Bunker]

This freak show gets its own post. That speedbump in throat thing? EPIC osteophytes (bone spurs) that looked like a mother fluffin' coat hook really stood out on CT scan. GI doc, a good clinician, was unable to detect it via endoscope and esophagram. Those are projecting forward, disrupting that, uh, fairly important stuff 'round the front of the neck. Got pretty sore when that mess was cleaned up and the good stuff fell back into their rightful places.

 

[Ron_R]

I'm glad you were abler to find the right doctor for you. That is paramount when dealing with such a complex issue.

A couple of points based on your history and the MRIs you posted.

Some insurances require a certain number of PT visits before they will approve invasive treatments like surgery. I run into this all the time. It is a constant battle between myself and insurance plans.

The use of the Ultrasonic Sound device is a promising new modality. Based on my search of the actual literature on it within Pubmed, it seems to have very good results. It hasn't had a huge slew of research with thousands of patients, but the initial results seem good. My trouble is that no one seems to run into any complications. And that is truly unheard of. I always question research where everyone does amazing, and the device is flawless. That's just not reality. It makes me ponder the research design, and statistical analysis of the data.

Your MRIs are troubling to me. You have a tremendous amount of arthritic changes between the vertebrae, which the procedure performed on your neck does not address. This is likely why a fusion was recommended. My fear is that with time, you will have a spike in pain and disability because, as you move your neck more, the arthritis will get worse. This is always the conundrum in the surgical sciences. Cleaning the osteophytes from the spinal segments is great, but it won't really address the root cause of the problem. And down the line, if the pain returns, spinal fusion may not be an option any longer due to age, bone density and healing potential.

Did anyone ever explain your urinary urgency issues and the problem in intimacy you were having? Are you still suffering from these, or did this disappear with your laminectomies?

Interesting case. Thank you for sharing. And I'm glad you are better. Be well.

 

[Mohi]

Hi, Mohi. My ancestors come from your area. Very best wishes for the least unpleasantness your situation can allow. This can be a challenging road.

Thanks man, yeah I live in Munich but my accent is pretty Spanish

I got today the second round if PRP let’s see if it works or not, anyway reading you my problem is just tiny in comparison, all the best!

 

[Archie Bunker]

I'm glad you were abler to find the right doctor for you. That is paramount when dealing with such a complex issue.

A couple of points based on your history and the MRIs you posted.

Some insurances require a certain number of PT visits before they will approve invasive treatments like surgery. I run into this all the time. It is a constant battle between myself and insurance plans.

The use of the Ultrasonic Sound device is a promising new modality. Based on my search of the actual literature on it within Pubmed, it seems to have very good results. It hasn't had a huge slew of research with thousands of patients, but the initial results seem good. My trouble is that no one seems to run into any complications. And that is truly unheard of. I always question research where everyone does amazing, and the device is flawless. That's just not reality. It makes me ponder the research design, and statistical analysis of the data.

Your MRIs are troubling to me. You have a tremendous amount of arthritic changes between the vertebrae, which the procedure performed on your neck does not address. This is likely why a fusion was recommended. My fear is that with time, you will have a spike in pain and disability because, as you move your neck more, the arthritis will get worse. This is always the conundrum in the surgical sciences. Cleaning the osteophytes from the spinal segments is great, but it won't really address the root cause of the problem. And down the line, if the pain returns, spinal fusion may not be an option any longer due to age, bone density and healing potential.

Did anyone ever explain your urinary urgency issues and the problem in intimacy you were having? Are you still suffering from these, or did this disappear with your laminectomies?

Interesting case. Thank you for sharing. And I'm glad you are better. Be well.

Thanks for your input, Ron. I gots a guitar in my lap now as my 4 expression pedal "OMG 12" config explodes to life and I just made a fortune on CEI stock I got 250,000 shares of at just fitty cent a pop last month, so things are hectic here and I may not get the outcome writeup done today, but in a nutshell......

The urinary issue (minor urgency after I was like a bladder camel all my life) is resolved. The intimacy issue is resolved, too, like an idiot teenager again. "Edith" and I have been going haywire with a multiple blammos per day experiment. 110% success. I've had some expected complications that seem to be resolving, but overall it's been a huge success.

Whew! Yeah, whew. Thanks again, Ron. All the best to you, sir.

Edited to add six week post-op radiograph.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Thanks man, yeah I live in Munich but my accent is pretty Spanish

I got today the second round if PRP let’s see if it works or not, anyway reading you my problem is just tiny in comparison, all the best!

I was not familiar with PRP, quite interesting. I love the entire Iberian peninsula. Some of the nicest people and best food I've encountered. Weather seems a bit nicer than Munich, too.

Buena suerte, keep us posted if you've the time. Cheers!

 

[Maddface]

Similar issues here. Had a neck fusion in Feb of 21, C4-C5-C6. Rough surgery and still recovering a year later only to find out C2 thru C4 is progressively bulging since the surgery. Dr warned me but he didn’t think it would be this quick. Having severe migraines, dizziness and slurred speech in which they are wanting to temporarily bandaid the issue with meds. Also found out that my lower spine is suffering as well with bulging discs at L4 thru S1. They had the same recommended steps with PT and meds. My back feels better and he thinks I won’t need surgery anytime soon but the neck is a different story. He sent me to another neurologist that specializes in Botox shots in the neck but I passed since it’s still only a temporary solution. Not sure what to do next.