Why can't 'amp in the room' feel be modelled?

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Amp in the room can't be modeled. The sound of a recorded tube amp, can be, and is.

Standing 100 feet behind a 747 before take-off, can be recorded. That sound can be played back through a music player and listened to. Someone could create a piece of software to simulate/emulate that sound. You might be able to get that simulation to be so realistic, that it fools the majority of listeners in a blind test - is this a recording of a real jet engine, or is it the computer generated simulation?

However, while the simulation might be believable, it isn't the same as standing out on the runway and hearing it first hand. For that, you need a jet.

without tapping into your consciousness, a sound modeler, can't give you the same tactile experience as having the actual experience. Maybe someday Cliff or someone will take us there.

But the other thing to consider is that once technology gets us there, the internet will be reserved solely for online porn, with little other use.

I hope this helps.
 
AFAIK, it's not the modelling that's the problem but the limitations imposed by physics. I would imagine to get the "Amp in the room" sound with an FRFR rig you would need multiple speakers. Why bother? if you want AITR sound, connect to a power amp & open back cab & there you have it.
 
Seems the world and their missus regardless of how big, small or famous they are is turning on to IEMs these days .... which is basically a fold back feed of one of your mic'd speakers in your lug hole. If it isn't IEM then it's standard FR monitor wedges as foldback - but still it's a mic'd feed to them too.

If it's a mic'd up amp (non MV perhaps) pushing major dbs to get it's sweet spot then the speaker cab is usually pointing away from the front of house or power soaked to keep things under control on stage - so the amp in the room experience for everyone in the room is pretty much gone anyway.

So a FRFR cab is just a big monitor that doesn't fit in your ear and if your gig is in a small room and does not merit a guitar feed to the PA then just turn up your FRFRs to act as loud backline - it should sound pretty much like the sound that would be coming from the PA if you'd been feeding it a mic'd signal in a larger venue anyway.

If you really feel more comfortable with the sound of conventional cabs behind you then by all means use them via the FXL to Outputs 2 method etc. There's no right or wrong - it's your own preference that counts.

I've been using the Matrix FR212 for a while now (nice!) ... the only thing I've had to tweak down is the highs .... you won't get away with some of those that might be present in your DAW/Studio monitor presets once you play at stage volume through larger FRFR cabs ..... unless you like tweeter squeal!
 
barhrecords said:
I don't understand the resistance to using a power amp -> guitar cab setup?
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It's because there are those who would be purists, who will not be happy unless when you dial up a Vox AC30 it sounds exactly like a Vox AC30. Never mind that a Vox AC30 preset through such-and-such a power amp and whatever cab sounds good in and of itself. Doing it that way isn't perfect.

Myself, I want the transparent amp/FRFR speaker solution because I want to hear what all those amps/cabs sound like. It's especially important if you're a "cover band" player trying to reproduce someone else's work. But, that's not to say that some hybrid solution isn't viable. It certainly is.
 
Amp in room always seemed an odd tone to chase to me

Its not going to sound like that at a gig, mic'd, or recorded, so unless you play music just for yourself, and maybe a handful of people you invite over to sit in the room while you jam, a bit silly really.

I'd rather have my tone, and have it sound the same if your listening to my music recorded, or if your seeing me play live, regardless of the venue.

I want to simply hit "record" and capture my sound, and be able to share it just as I heard it. Not make the excuse " you had to be there, the sound of my amp in my room that night was amazing"
 
Axe is the greatest product ever cuz:

1. When I want Amp in the room. I use output 2 to Matrix GM50 / 2x12 Cab with EVM. I prefer this sound when practicing or maybe rehearsal (aka Plug and play). I know my cab is limiting my sound but I usually ending up using 1 or 2 Cab sims

2. Recording or using FOH I use Cab sim (output1). There's no need for micing which giving my more consisting sound.

... and I can mix 1 and 2 which giving me more flexibility than any product on the market
 
barhrecords said:
I don't understand the resistance to using a power amp -> guitar cab setup?

Seems like a no-brainer to me and sounds incredible with the Fractal.

Before purchasing CLR monitors, that was my preferred live rig. Since the CLR's, I can play using IR's and feel like I am making no compromises in feel and playing experience.
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No resistance here. The only trade off is that I'm always playing through the same 100 watt EL34 power amp. So my Vox tones, for example, aren't 100%. And of course, I can't have an alnico 4x10 with my Super Reverb and 4x12 greenback cab with my plexi tones...
 
mikeyg said:
No resistance here. The only trade off is that I'm always playing through the same 100 watt EL34 power amp. So my Vox tones, for example, aren't 100%. And of course, I can't have an alnico 4x10 with my Super Reverb and 4x12 greenback cab with my plexi tones...
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..... but you do have your own pleasing live sound I'd say?

The historically correct combinations are there for you if you want to record or DI at any stage too .... so it's a win-win

You can also try a SS amp solution and then it would just be the cab/speaker as the fixed constant ..... so maybe that should be win-win-.75 win
 
If it sounds good, it is good! that should be all that matters. I have a friend that has amp on brain syndrome and he says my tone is not real because I do not use a tube amp(what the...) how much more real is the guitar tone electrified through a tube amp and pedals, or a guitar tone electrified through the ax and a power amp? I would say both are real, but nether one is real guitar tone! I want my perception of the guitar sound to be the same has front of house so I simply love the AXE FX!
 
GazzaBloom said:
If fractal could solve that conundrum, then that would be a game changer. Where an Axe thru a CLR or equivalent in the room could not be differentiated between the real amp in the same room.
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It's a dynamic variable dealing strictly with a physical presence. How can you simulate actually going to war when you are playing Call Of Duty or Battlefield using your thumbs?

What you're asking will have many answers but reality has to sink in a bit regarding how unique each use case would be. That is the beauty of the Axe-FX in that it recreates sound consistently, not dependent upon any one singular variable. Realistic expectations have already been accommodated by FAS, let's just focus on those shall we?
 
I will never get the angst and speculation when the solution is right there?

But someone, FAS?, needs to put a clean power amp into a guitar cabinet and sell it. Call it "amp in the room".

If you can't convince the skeptics with facts, then make a shilling off of the lot of them. :)
 
I've tried FRFR monitors from several brands…
and of course I have studio monitors…

but for me personally, there's no substitute for playing through my real cabs with a healthy amount of volume..

Axe-II -> Matrix GT1000FX -> pair of Marshall 1960b cabs
 
I disagree as well.

To get the amp in the room feel, I just crank my speakers loud.
I get all the pushy air on my back and my body vibrating to the wabbling sound of the decaying sustained riff and blah blah

I don't miss a single thing of having a tube amp in front of me.
 
clarky said:
I've tried FRFR monitors from several brands…
and of course I have studio monitors…

but for me personally, there's no substitute for playing through my real cabs with a healthy amount of volume..

Axe-II -> Matrix GT1000FX -> pair of Marshall 1960b cabs
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Not arguing with you that its a great sound, but what do you do when you want to record a track ?

Likewise, what do you do when you play a venue that requires you to mic your cab ? I suppose one could still use a real cab as a stage monitor, but then regardless of if your using mic'd cab or IR's, the FOH guitar tone is going to be different than how your hearing it on stage. That personally would drive me crazy.

Likewise, how are your band mates hearing you if they are far off axis from your sweet spot with how you monitor your cabs ?


Basically the only real benefit, and yes it can be a good one, to the "amp in room" thing, as far as I've been able to figure out, is that it sounds good for the guitarist. Doesn't sound as good for the audience, doesn't translate to tape, often doesn't sound as good for other band members (volume wars anyone ? lol), and isn't going to be consistent night after night, unless the amp really is in your room or you play the exact same venues.

As I've said, if you just play at home, and never record your music, then amp in room is pretty ideal....

But what do all you guys who do enjoy getting "amp in room" do when its time to lay some tracks down ?
 
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