Why are so many people not relying on their ears anymore?

[mark149]

And don't forget ear fatigue. When relying on your ears, you need to take a break occasionally. This depends on the person, but I've dialed in tones and come back the next day and said "Damn, what was I thinking ?". Also having some idea of where to start or, in my case, having someone with experience using Fractal products, was a big help.

AMEN to that! Times I thought the FM3 didn't start up correctly or I forgot to hit SAVE.

 

[J.C]

On Stack Overflow, which is extremely technologically oriented, the rules for posting are along these lines:

1. Describe where you searched/what you read in an attempt to solve the problem.
2. Describe why those didn’t help.
3. Describe what code you wrote prior to asking.
4. Describe why it didn’t work.
5. Summarize your code to the minimum necessary to reproduce the problem. Make sure that the necessary code is all contained in the question so we can reproduce it separately and work on it to find a solution.

The goal is to encourage people to take the necessary steps upfront to try to solve the problem by educating themselves, then attempting to write a working solution based on their self-education.

Does it work? Kinda. Most people initially ignore it, then their question gets rejected by their peers and they’re forced to fill in the missing information and then their peers vote to reopen the question. Sometimes it’s a cycle that occurs multiple times. Sometimes their peers, trying to help, pile on like puppies and immediately switch to “20 questions mode” and multiple people ask multiple different questions without a clue how to diagnose the problem in an organized manner, and it goes on and on. And sometimes someone recognizes the problem and immediately says “Read this question and its answer”, i.e., “RTFM on page n” and that’s the end of it. Which, if the person asking had done that at the onset, would have circumvented a lot of wasted time and energy and frustration.

Both sites require certain things from the user asking the question, only that site explains how to ask in an organized manner and has a tutorial explaining how it all works. (And of course people ignore that, and then get told to do their ground work.) Observing that site from the inside for years has been an interesting learning experience watching how some people understand how to educate themselves and need a gentle nudge or explanation and then they are off and running again, and others want it done for them and handed to them with a bow on a platter.

And I see the same strata and situations here.

Each step has its parallels here. It helps immensely if people RTFM first and can quote what they tried so we don’t have to ask. If we know they already read it we can skip suggesting they do so, and we don’t have to quote it, or summarize it … the line… process… moves much more quickly. If there’s the preset, or block, attached, we can immediately look inside and try to reproduce the problem and find a fix.

If we can get rid of those “ifs” the process of Q&A will be smoother. But the first step won’t happen so we’re always going to be stuck with the same issues.

That’s how I see it from my porch.

Thanks for typing this out. It's helpful to know how things work in different circles. I can see why it's important there.

 

[la szum]

People have largely never relied on their ears, just have more technology these days.

Heck, I remember back in the pre-internet, pre modeler days when we all had amps and pedals trying to find artist settings in guitar magazines or looking at the back line during a gig….

Didn’t want to set my tone stack by ear, wanted to copy how such and such artist set his…..

Like the secret tone was mids at 6, treble at 8…… lol

Yup. I loved these on the last page of Guitar World. It was worth the subscription price alone.

 

[la szum]

This may seem pretty much off topic, but I’ll risk it anyway … for anyone who enjoyed Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Robert Pirsig’s wife has released a new collection of writings and talks given by her husband, titled On Quality: An Inquiry Into Excellence. I enjoyed it very much; it took me waaaay back to the summer of ’74, when I first read Zen and the Art.

If you haven’t read his classic, I’d recommend starting there first. Both books contain a wealth of thought that can readily be related to the journey we all share; our love of the guitar, and the quest for tone.

View attachment 102584

Damn, was waiting for my aging folks to get done with a Doc appt. yesterday so
I went to the local bookstore and had this in my hand to purchase, but they called
me to pick them up so I bailed. Gonna grab it. Trust the serendipity!!

 

[la szum]

In one sense, why is the word "anymore" in this question? Hasn't this always been the case? In another sense, while anyone who listens will eventually know if they like what they hear or not, I expect that most never get past "just good enough."

On the flip side, Fractal Audio Systems strives to raise that level for all of its customers. You see this not only in the quality of our hardware and software, but in the dedicated effort to make constant improvements through new firmware.

Time and time again, we get emails or see social posts to the effect of, "Wow, I did not know what I was missing!"

A great percentage of the time, those people are "relying on their ears."

Yes! I'd contend that if we are not "relying on our ears" when we are playing in the moment (especially with other musicians)
then are approaching this all wrong.

For me there is a conceptual difference in how to approach playing, and what we hear when we are tweaking/researching versus
when we are playing. At some point the "theoretical" has to give way to the medium of the "practical." Not arguing for an
either/or approach. Just that we need to understand which approach suits which situation.

Not to mention that where we are at on the journey plays a MASSIVE role in how we will conceptualize the inherent differences in
those approaches.

 

[la szum]

We live in a world of instant gratification.

Give me the eternal secrets while requiring nothing of me. Please.


Ok. I'll give you $19.95 for them.

 

[la szum]

I just play guitar

Very Zen.

Those who can do.

 

[bleujazz3]

Hey yall,

first of all, each to their own, i know that.

But i am just curious why so many people want definitive awnsers or specs or whatever for things instead of just trying something out,
and use it if it sounds good.

If it sounds good, it is good. Isnt that part of the fun, happy accidents and everything, maybe not anymore?

I dont know, maybe its just me and see it wrong^^

Best
Johnny

Hi, Johnny,

I appreciate your sentiments! Yes, like some, I sometimes rely on the opinions of better versed individuals who know what works and what doesn't. That being said, if I download one of these types or presets or blocks, it's almost imperative that I hear what sounds good and what doesn't. That's because I employ several guitars with a variety of pickups, that will sound different regards my applications. Invariably, any downloaded preset will require some form of adjustment to taste, and that is where my ears are required.

The old saying that one must use practical applications of a variety of principles to accomplish one's goal does make sense, and truthfully, it helps one focus on doing your work more efficiently and effectively. Your ears can be valuable assets when dialing in what you want to hear, and because each one of our physiologies is different, we each hear differently, and what appeals to one individual may not appeal to someone else.

For example, when you hear a click track in the background...do you automatically remember to void that before sending song to publish, or do you keep that? Depending on what you're striving to do, you may choose whatever course to follow. And whatever decision you make should essentially be a wise one, not one that might pose a problem for you.

The real problem is, we don't always make wise decisions, and sometimes need corrective guidance before we decide. If we fail in this respect, we certainly will reap the consequences of our actions.

Our ears can direct our thoughts, when sometimes our eyes may deceive us. In that instance, it is better to trust your ears than your eyes. For that reason, I have a saying posted on my wall, in a picture frame:

There is a Difference Between
Hearing & Listening.
Hearing is Naturally Acquired
While Listening is an Art.
Be a Better Listener.
​

Thanks for reading.

 

[Jason Scott]

A lot of people's ears simply aren't reliable.

 

[Joel.Brown333]

That's very true. Some people can say "Wow, that tone is amazing" but when it comes to dialing in a tone they struggle to hear if they're going in the right direction.

 

[sprint]

Due to tinnitus / hearing issues I've lost a lot of my hi end hearing as well as some reduced ranges that fall squarely within typical guitar related spectrum. If I give one of my presets to you folks with undamaged hearing you'd probably cringe at some exaggerated levels in some ranges but which sound normal to me.

 

[bleujazz3]

Say for example you're sitting outside underneath the stars listening to a stage performance. Do you automatically question why the front of house PA sounds the way it does? Do you expect the casual listener to understand how the guitarist dialed in his tone (if the guitarist were employing a modeler or effects/amp)?

Perhaps, that is what separates musicians from the casual audience listener. It's because when we perform onstage, we are "ear-trained" to listen for direction, tempo, breaks, key, among other facets of musicianship. Sometimes we need to make split-second decisions as to what course we follow. The "ear-trained" musician has an easier time of practice or play, simply because his knowledge base of all things music are ingrained in him.

It's very much like how a doctor listens to his patient in order to diagnose a condition or illness. The doctor has to be trained to hear what the patient is saying, and even consider what underlying symptoms may be occurring even if the symptoms may not be outwardly evident at the time. It's as if the doctor takes a visual snapshot of what's going on inside the patient, without actually performing any tests unless the doctor believes such tests will reveal additional diagnostic information.

Likewise, musicians may never fully realize what gifts their "ear-training" involve, until they can step up on stage themselves and utilize this gift. When this occurs, not only can they play what they've practiced well, but they can also interact with and read an audience better so that their performance proceeds well and is successful.

How do I know this? For quite a few years, I played as a guest guitarist to a house band open-mic. My constituents told me to turn down when it wasn't my turn to solo, to listen more attentively for chord and directional changes. To learn to play as if enjoying a conversation with your fellow musicians, while telling a story of drama and comedy. To learn to watch closely as those taking the lead would provide song direction. To try to end your part on a resolving note so that the next musician would not need try to build his part on something that already had tension in it. And if at all possible build to a crescendo that experienced a satisfying conclusion.

These things I've learned as a practicing guitarist. Not only from a guitarist's tone point of view, but from a fellow band-member's. You have to give things your best effort when we play live gigs, and sometimes, if your ears are working correctly, they will be invaluable to you if you take care of them.

 

[toneseeker911]

Because your ears play tricks on you. They are very unreliable and adapt to any sound after a few minutes. Everything just becomes relative. After listening to a bass heavy preset for a few minutes, a well shaped guitar tone sounds harsh.
Not to mention perceived eq changes based on volume, based on the room, monitors , headphones, isolated vs in the mix etc etc.

And many a time, you discover neat tricks to build your preset from all the experienced folks here.

 

[Roland]

My ears work well, but I’m still interested in what settings other people use. There isn’t enough time in life for me to experiment with all the combinations of settings which the AxeFX gives access to. I’ll often look at settings which Burgs or Leon show in their videos and conclude “interesting, but not something I’d use”.

Then there are things which I wouldn’t have thought of. Dynamic Distortion on an acoustic is a recent example.

 

[skydog]

You should have stayed with “To each his own”.

My answer, is that our senses can mislead us. Every day my eyes see the sun, moon, and stars moving while the earth stands still.

I have no idea if others hear the same things I’m hearing.

Everyone is different. I cannot count the number of YouTube videos watched, or forum posts read, where the person discusses the nuances of tone, and then plays something that sounds awful to me. The key qualifier here is “to me”.

My point is that I definitely use my ears, but additional information is interesting, and may change what I think. I’m not willing to ignore my eyes, my gut, my brain, as well as another’s inputs.

 

[Jason Scott]

It's not a surprise to me really... Everyone want someone who had figured it out to pour in them what he find out, people rarely research or discover things for themselves anymore the dependence is too much.

If someone's already made something you want, why reinvent the wheel?

 

[Piing]

If someone's already made something you want, why reinvent the wheel?

Exactly. We don't need to buy one guitar with humbucker and another one with single coil, and one Roland JC-120 and one Marshall stack, only to discover by ourselves which one would be better for our application. As with most subjects in life, there is shared knowledge and research.

This thread is like looking for complications where there aren’t any

 

[la szum]

That's very true. Some people can say "Wow, that tone is amazing" but when it comes to dialing in a tone they struggle to hear if they're going in the right direction.

Some people say that tone doesn't matter as much as performance. I think performance is
important, but who wants to listen to a great performance that has an underlying tone that
is unpleasant? Not me.

As someone who has obsessed about guitar and music (like a lot of others here) I believe that
tone is paramount. I can count on less than my 10 fingers the players (local or national) that
I felt had amazing tone live. That's not many.

Seen a lot of great performances, but those with a tone that was loud, present,. and also fit the
context of the music, but was dialed in to be just perfectly balanced (neither tubby, hollow in the mids,
nor shrill) are few and far between.

I'd rather listen to someone with amazing tone, than someone with just fleet fingers.

 

[la szum]

Imagine someone with the world's most illuminating knowledge to share, and yet they have
a monotonal presentation with their voice. How long can we stay interested and attentive?

Not long, I'd argue.

 

[la szum]

Due to tinnitus / hearing issues I've lost a lot of my hi end hearing as well as some reduced ranges that fall squarely within typical guitar related spectrum. If I give one of my presets to you folks with undamaged hearing you'd probably cringe at some exaggerated levels in some ranges but which sound normal to me.

Are you really Buddy Guy!!!!!????