Why are so many people not relying on their ears anymore?

Hey yall,

first of all, each to their own, i know that.

But i am just curious why so many people want definitive awnsers or specs or whatever for things instead of just trying something out,
and use it if it sounds good.

If it sounds good, it is good. Isnt that part of the fun, happy accidents and everything, maybe not anymore?

I dont know, maybe its just me and see it wrong^^

Best
Johnny
Are we talking about "how to sound like Metallica?" or "should this model have the bright switch on, should I use frfr or poweramp/cab in the advanced settings."
 
I started on an Axe Ultra that didn’t have USB connectivity.. no downloading patches. Copying people was a good starting point and then I’d tweak from there. Then I got an Axe II, and only downloaded presets to compare mine to, to see if they were up to par. The goal was always to make my own sound and I recommend it. I learned a lot about the deeper parameters in the unit from channels like Plague Scythe Studios and Leon Todd. I’ve come a long way. Currently thriving in the Axe III.
 
It's hard to tell how a tone works until you crank it up on a real stage. Once I have presets I know sound good out in the real world, it's a good sanity check to compare anything new to them...
Yeah, live or even in rehearsal... its always less gain, more mids... I play 2 4x12s in the band, and it always seems like what seems great through studio monitors will lie to you. Now I tweak at loud, and then check it for the xlr outs that go to FOH for sanity instead of the other way around.
 
Hey yall,

first of all, each to their own, i know that.

But i am just curious why so many people want definitive awnsers or specs or whatever for things instead of just trying something out,
and use it if it sounds good.

If it sounds good, it is good. Isnt that part of the fun, happy accidents and everything, maybe not anymore?

I dont know, maybe its just me and see it wrong^^

Best
Johnny
because your own ears may not be educated enough to know what good tone actually is or how to get it, more experienced players can short cut that learning process for you, I wish someone had for me. I knew when guitars sounded fantastic on records, and at live concerts, I had no idea how to get there myself though.

Messing about with modellers has taught me how to get there, and how to achieve the target of getting a tone match. Experience teaches you how the mids and high cuts in particular, get your tone sounding like the players you listen to, and how bass can muddy the tone when you think you're adding it to get a heavier sound etc when in fact you need to do the opposite.

When i listen to my original dialled in tones which i thought were great, i know realise they were fizzy and muddy. I didn't know how to set up guitar tones properly, so I for one would have benefitted massively from someone telling me the correct theory of how to make my tones sound like the people I listened to. Now I know how to do it, I'm quite surprised at how easy it is to replicate a lot of the big artist tones.
 
People have largely never relied on their ears, just have more technology these days.

Heck, I remember back in the pre-internet, pre modeler days when we all had amps and pedals trying to find artist settings in guitar magazines or looking at the back line during a gig….

Didn’t want to set my tone stack by ear, wanted to copy how such and such artist set his…..

Like the secret tone was mids at 6, treble at 8…… lol
 
Hey yall,

first of all, each to their own, i know that.

But i am just curious why so many people want definitive awnsers or specs or whatever for things instead of just trying something out,
and use it if it sounds good.

If it sounds good, it is good. Isnt that part of the fun, happy accidents and everything, maybe not anymore?

I dont know, maybe its just me and see it wrong^^

Best
Johnny
I can only speak for me. We are closing in on 300 amps in the fractal units, of which I have played maybe three in my whole life. I understand, more or less, how to dial in a fender amp but am clue less on many of the others. So if I can ask about a good starting point for a Marshall plexis and learn about how they work compared to what I know then I think that is a good thing. We have years and years of collective knowledge in this forum. Tapping into that is not a bad thing.
 
250 Amp models, 2,237 Factory CABs, hundreds of different effects... Now create an Axe-Edit version where their names and their parameter's names have been replaced with numbers, with just a massive grid of buttons and knobs that do not indicate the actual knob position, and start tweaking your tone by ear starting from scratch :eek:

A newbie without knowledge could spend hours experimenting to find if he really needs a chorus, a flanger, a phaser, an enhancer, a detuner or a stereo delay to recreate some idea he has on his mind. The trained one will know which one to choose and which buttons to tweak, without having to initially rely on his ears

It is the same with music composition and interpretation. You can try to compose and play by ear, or you can learn music theory to have better understanding and to create more complex pieces. There was that guy that wrote entire symphonies being deaf, because he knew how the final product would be without having to rely on his damaged ears.
 
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Hey yall,

first of all, each to their own, i know that.

But i am just curious why so many people want definitive awnsers or specs or whatever for things instead of just trying something out,
and use it if it sounds good.

If it sounds good, it is good. Isnt that part of the fun, happy accidents and everything, maybe not anymore?

I dont know, maybe its just me and see it wrong^^

Best
Johnny
I'm with you 100%. So many folks don't have the ears or their own confidence to rely on them. I see this in the audio field all the time. Folks who will rely on specs and throw specs at you but refuse to discern the sound. I think something simply cannot easily be explained by specs alone.
 
Yes, in terms of the Metaphysics Of Quality, we must constantly reconcile our perception of dynamic quality vs. static quality.
This may seem pretty much off topic, but I’ll risk it anyway … for anyone who enjoyed Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Robert Pirsig’s wife has released a new collection of writings and talks given by her husband, titled On Quality: An Inquiry Into Excellence. I enjoyed it very much; it took me waaaay back to the summer of ’74, when I first read Zen and the Art.

If you haven’t read his classic, I’d recommend starting there first. Both books contain a wealth of thought that can readily be related to the journey we all share; our love of the guitar, and the quest for tone.

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Too many amps, cabs, effects, to just start piecing together by ear. It would take decades. Gott'a have a starting point then tweak by ear once you get close.
 
In one sense, why is the word "anymore" in this question? Hasn't this always been the case? In another sense, while anyone who listens will eventually know if they like what they hear or not, I expect that most never get past "just good enough."

On the flip side, Fractal Audio Systems strives to raise that level for all of its customers. You see this not only in the quality of our hardware and software, but in the dedicated effort to make constant improvements through new firmware.

Time and time again, we get emails or see social posts to the effect of, "Wow, I did not know what I was missing!"

A great percentage of the time, those people are "relying on their ears."
 
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In one sense, why is the word "anymore" in this question? Hasn't this always been the case? In another sense, while anyone who listens will eventually know if they like what they hear or not, I expect that most never get past "just good enough."

On the flip side, Fractal Audio Systems strives to raise that level for all of its customers. You see this not only in the quality of our hardware and software, but in the dedicated effort to make constant improvements through new firmware.

Time and time again, we get emails or see social posts to the effect of, "Wow, I did not know what I was missing!"

A great percentage of the time, those people are "relying on their ears."
"anymore", because over the past 10-15 years i see all kinds forums more and more flooded with questions like this which yoitsmegabe
used as an exsample:"should this model have the bright switch on, should I use frfr or poweramp/cab in the advanced settings." etc

I guess i should be more specific.
 
When you consider that unplugging a single pedal (even in off position) can change your tone, it's easy to see why some people look for help. One of the biggest factors for me is using the right guitar. If you have the proper instrument it's 10x easier to get the sound you want IMO.

I'd say the tone quest is a worthy one, and very complex. Guitars/amps, cables and signal chains all matter. AxeFX just makes life so much easier.
 
Hey yall,

first of all, each to their own, i know that.

But i am just curious why so many people want definitive awnsers or specs or whatever for things instead of just trying something out,
and use it if it sounds good.

If it sounds good, it is good. Isnt that part of the fun, happy accidents and everything, maybe not anymore?

I dont know, maybe its just me and see it wrong^^

Best
Johnny
I don't see a problem inquiring about the ingredients to a recipe rather than trying to recreate it via trial and error, but that's me.
 
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I think for me, what sounds good is based on my perception of tone. That perception is only as deep as my experience is wide. I admittedly do not have a lot of real world amp experience, so what sounds good to me has a lot of room for refinement. There are other variables as well, such as hearing health, isolated versus recorded versus live tones, etc. that I feel like the more information I am armed with, the better equipped I am to decide in context, what is appropriately good tone. If I use traditional amps as a kind of control, then I can have a solid leaping off point because I can learn what I like and don't like about what that amp offers and how to shape it to my needs.

So I think it is a combination of using my ears to latch onto what is inspiring, then using my brain to refine that inspiration into a useable tone for the musical context that it will be used in, which will ultimately define whether it is good or not. For example, I like very dark tones, and for a long time, I did not hear them as unusably dark. But over time, I have trained my ears to be able to discern better what works in a musical environment and have come to the conclusion that it goes against what I find inspiring. I still have a long way to go and it is exciting. With every step, my experience and knowledge increase and that means there is more for me to draw upon to translate what I hear in my head out into the world as a guitar tone that may reach other people. Music is a form of communication and to be able to speak the language that allows me to converse with others is a wonderful thing, I think. When you hear a band that really sounds great, that is what I'm talking about. Tone matters and how we get good tone is through refining and challenging our perception of that notion, the only way we can do that is to allow ourselves to be uncomfortable yet enjoy the ride when learning about guitar tone.

So uh, bit of column A bit of column B I guess.

Edit: I should note that, everyone is different and there is no inherent right or wrong. What works for me may not for others. I think it's just about finding whatever works for us as individuals. It's all good.
 
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"anymore", because over the past 10-15 years i see all kinds forums more and more flooded with questions

I think that's a change in visibility, not in people.

It all comes down to the one big thing people want: to sound better, to play better, to be better. In the past (I'm 55) we had these same desires, but we had no Internet to ask. When I was a kid, I didn't know a bright switch from a light switch My only resource was a "local" (40 minute drive!) music shop where the staff consisted of people whose self-worth was tied up in lording over others the things they knew and we didn't. Unless you paid in cash, musicians were the same thing.

"Can you show me that lick?"
"No way man, I had to steal it myself!"

I get where you're coming from though. People who have asked me for help know that I try to emphasize the value of making mistakes so you can learn from them. Fractal hat back on again: the ability to explore fearlessly is another thing that comes with every Fractal Audio product. You won't blow out any virtual tubes or accidentally connect an output to an output, and anything that goes "wrong" is only as permanent as hitting "Revert" or "Import".
 
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I see it in other areas as well. If I pose an idea or a concept, let's say on social questions, I'll invariably be asked at somepoint to provide the link. Link? There's is no link. I actually thought of this on my own. LOL. It's as if it's no longer popular or acceptable to think for yourself, hear for yourself or have an original idea.
 
This may seem pretty much off topic, but I’ll risk it anyway … for anyone who enjoyed Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Robert Pirsig’s wife has released a new collection of writings and talks given by her husband, titled On Quality: An Inquiry Into Excellence. I enjoyed it very much; it took me waaaay back to the summer of ’74, when I first read Zen and the Art.

If you haven’t read his classic, I’d recommend starting there first. Both books contain a wealth of thought that can readily be related to the journey we all share; our love of the guitar, and the quest for tone.

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And don't forget Pirsig's follow up book to ZMM called Lila. It helped to expand on the ideas that have become known as the MOQ. These ideas are very much relevant to the pursuit of tone and actually to pretty much every pursuit for that matter. Dig it.
 
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