Who has and uses a Midas MR18 live and in studio?

[KevinP]

I've had XR18, MR18 and now have the M32 core. All are fantastic units, great for the money but would be great at a higher price point too. Used for live show (ears and FOH) as well as recording interfaces. I've never noticed any latency, anyone claiming a latency time that didn't run an actual measurement I would question (no offense to above but no detail provided other than a 100% variance of possible latency that is 16x what the manufacturer states on the high side, seems like an anecdotal statement as well). If the ins/outs work for you they are great devices. Preamps are noticeably better on MR stuff in side by side comparison.

 

[Mr.LukeCooper]

I used XR18 for years and it froze one time on me and I just turned it off and back on to be back in business. I also hadn't updated the firmware when this happened. I've used X32 rack as well, great unit. Sold XR18 and upgraded to MR18 and it is fantastic. The differences were in how much punchier drums sound, vocals are warmer and everything is a bit more clear. Can be pushed very hard and it sounds fantastic.

I've yet to record on the midas but I recorded on the XR 18 USB out direct to Studio one Professional. I would setup a preset to match the I/O of the mixer so it was easy to plug and play on a saturday morning with friends. It recorded fine and I was able to mix later on from home.

For both units I have exclusively used it with an external router and an Ipad. I also have a hard line ethernet connection to a computer as a failsafe which I have never had to use. I like the desktop app better than the ipad app but it's no big deal. The behringer x-air app works for the MR18 mixer too. The midas app is terrible. Mixing station is a third party app that gets rave reviews, I just haven't messed with it.

Now I just installed a touchmix 8 at a smaller country church for a friend and it also was a great mixer. Interface was super easy to get around, presets are cool. As for comparison, I would go in order of least to greatest, XR18->QSC->MR18.

I'd be perfectly fine with any of them and I think you will be very pleased with the MR18.

 

[Chromatizm]

anyone claiming a latency time that didn't run an actual measurement I would question

There is no reason to question this - check the FM3 7.0 beta thread and it is clear that not everybody can detect the latency which WAS there - admitted by Cliff himself. Whatever the reason, everyone's tolerance to this is different.
There is no digital device without latency. FM3 latency -> XR18 latency could easily add up to a "detectable" value.

latency that is 16x what the manufacturer states on the high side, seems like an anecdotal statement as well

On this I definitely agree. I believe the values people report are USB latency, not internal processing latency. That's what easy to measure and that's makes sense with values like 4ms and above - typical USB latency. Maybe their ASIO drivers are no up to standards. There is a huge chance that the rehearsal room I was using then had it misconfigured, like running through USB or having some buffer settings up high - I didn't try to figure out, just plugged directly into monitors and enjoyed the faces of studio stuff which were on my ass claiming "there is no latency, you can't hear it" - they also realized it was there once we made a switch.
IMO, manufacturer's claim of 0.8ms in the cheap unit with quality processing seems even more anecdotal to me.

 

[KevinP]

There is no reason to question this - check the FM3 7.0 beta thread and it is clear that not everybody can detect the latency which WAS there - admitted by Cliff himself. Whatever the reason, everyone's tolerance to this is different.
There is no digital device without latency. FM3 latency -> XR18 latency could easily add up to a "detectable" value.

On this I definitely agree. I believe the values people report are USB latency, not internal processing latency. That's what easy to measure and that's makes sense with values like 4ms and above - typical USB latency. Maybe their ASIO drivers are no up to standards. There is a huge chance that the rehearsal room I was using then had it misconfigured, like running through USB or having some buffer settings up high - I didn't try to figure out, just plugged directly into monitors and enjoyed the faces of studio stuff which were on my ass claiming "there is no latency, you can't hear it" - they also realized it was there once we made a switch.
IMO, manufacturer's claim of 0.8ms in the cheap unit with quality processing seems even more anecdotal to me.

All completely fair, but you are saying you believe the devices have a specific latency value that is not something that you could possibly measure with your ears. That's the part I am calling out only. All analog to digital will have latency, and the same on the way back. Yes they will also stack as you put more A to D or D to A in there, no argument there.

 

[Chromatizm]

That's rhe part I am calling out only.

Well, I've spent years playing simple stuff like SansAmp - no delay - and PC plugins with 4 and 8ms of latency, and I know exactly how it feels. It was exactly the same feeling playing through XR18. That's why I was guessing the numbers - which matched what people measured.
Five ms or more, or maybe slightly less, this I can't attest to, of course, but the delay was much bigger that 0.8ms, no doubt about that!

 

[KevinP]

Well, I've spent years playing simple stuff like SansAmp - no delay - and PC plugins, and I know exactly how it feels. It was exactly the same feeling playing through XR18. That's why I was guessing the numbers - which matched what people measured.
Five ms or more, or maybe slightly less, this I can't attest to, but the delay was much bigger that 0.8ms, no doubt about that!

I've played bunch of stuff for years, but I'm not claiming I can guestimate a 4 to 8 ms latency, or that a manufacturer who had to use scientific methods to do their measurements is wrong.

A simple comparison, you are claiming you think it is 4 to 8 ms of latency, that would be like you playing in a room with another guitar player who is between 4.3 feet and 8.6 feet away from you and you can tell very specifically the distance that person is away from you in that short amount of physical space, or even that they are in that particular distance, vs maybe 2 feet or 12 feet specifically. That's the part I don't agree with and I was calling out. You can't tell that with your ears, and you even admitted you have no idea what the setup was when you used one of the devices and experienced what you think was likely 4 to 8 ms of latency. Far too many factors there for you to give an opinion on the single piece of gear causing the latency IMO.

BTW - this is all meant to be a friendly debate on a forum for discussion - I hope it is not coming off otherwise, that is not my intent so hopefully my words match that and if not, sorry.

 

[Chromatizm]

friendly debate

Definitely!

What I probably did wrong is that I made it look like XR18 is a bad piece of gear, but this wasn't my intention at all, and I and sorry about that. And I will be more cautious not to provide any numbers in such cases

you are claiming you think it is 4 to 8 ms of latency

Well, you can take my word for it or not, but a few different people actually tested my claims on that via blind test by switching buffering in my Zoom interface so Cubase reports 3.5 vs 8ms latency.
I was able to guess correctly each time. There is just no actual guessing for me, it is just night and day. You can feel it, you don't need to guess values.

Far too many factors there for you to give an opinion on the single piece of gear causing the latency IMO.

I hear what you are saying. I am willing to admit it wasn't interface's fault if studio people inserted some extra gear or plugins in the chain, or it was using USB when there was no reason to - but they in return claimed they didn't. They called me out too saying there is no delay and I am making this stuff up.
But they had to admit I was right once we switched FM3 from XR18 to direct FM3-speakers chain. They didn't want but they had to in the end. Maybe XR18 was in the wrong mode or something, I have no idea. They were thinking I am just another stupid smartass, and I understand why.

I totally get why you think I shouldn't be able to hear this and that, I do. But again, check the FM3 beta thread, it is a simple fact that some people detect this kind of stuff more easily than others. Doesn't make them unique or anything, but happens anyway.

 

[KevinP]

Definitely!

What I probably did wrong is that I made it look like XR18 is a bad piece of gear, but this wasn't my intention at all, and I and sorry about that. And I will be more cautious not to provide any numbers in such cases


Well, you can take my word for it or not, but a few different people actually tested my claims on that via blind test by switching buffering in my Zoom interface so Cubase reports 3.5 vs 8ms latency.
I was able to guess correctly each time. There is just no actual guessing for me, it is just night and day. You can feel it, you don't need to guess values.


I hear what you are saying. I am willing to admit it wasn't interface's fault if studio people inserted some extra gear or plugins in the chain, or it was using USB when there was no reason to - but they in return claimed they didn't. They called me out too saying there is no delay and I am making this stuff up.
But they had to admit I was right once we switched FM3 from XR18 to direct FM3-speakers chain. They didn't want but they had to in the end. Maybe XR18 was in the wrong mode or something, I have no idea. They were thinking I am just another stupid smartass, and I understand why.

I totally get why you think I shouldn't be able to hear this and that, I do. But again, check the FM3 beta thread, it is a simple fact that some people detect this kind of stuff more easily than others. Doesn't make them unique or anything, but happens anyway.

That is some insanely cool skill (or amazing coincidence) or gifted ears or whatever it is. Will take your word for it and the threads. Not something I could tell.

 

[Tremonti]

So what would the QSC Touchmix 16 have latency wise? That is what I have been using with Fractal stuff live. I am sure that did not have ZERO for latency. Correct?

 

[BBN]

I've tried more digital mixers than I care to admit.
X18/MR18 - very solid units. Would not hesitate to recommend one.
After trying a QSC - I would definitely recommend a Behringer/Midas over that.

Latency? - never recognized any issue there in a live situation - at all.
In the studio - yes, sometimes latency is an issue....and it's usually due to which laptop I'm using at the time.
That is the case no matter what digital mixer I'm using.

I use X32 Racks/Core/S16/DL16 (all Behringer/Midas) - same preamps that are found in the X18/MR18.
The difference between Behringer/Midas preamps - can you hear it? Yes (midas is a little smoother).
Is it enough to recommend selling a X18 to get a MR18? Nope.

I mix on a X18 frequently enough, and I always walk away thinking - I really like this unit (and app).

 

[Dave Merrill]

I've tried more digital mixers than I care to admit.
X18/MR18 - very solid units. Would not hesitate to recommend one.
After trying a QSC - I would definitely recommend a Behringer/Midas over that.

Latency? - never recognized any issue there in a live situation - at all.
In the studio - yes, sometimes latency is an issue....and it's usually due to which laptop I'm using at the time.
That is the case no matter what digital mixer I'm using.

I use X32 Racks/Core/S16/DL16 (all Behringer/Midas) - same preamps that are found in the X18/MR18.
The difference between Behringer/Midas preamps - can you hear it? Yes (midas is a little smoother).
Is it enough to recommend selling a X18 to get a MR18? Nope.

I mix on a X18 frequently enough, and I always walk away thinking - I really like this unit (and app).

@BBN I see your from the Boston area (me too). Which venues around here are using these boards? Or are you not talking local?

 

[BBN]

@BBN I see your from the Boston area (me too). Which venues around here are using these boards? Or are you not talking local?

Boston/NH/RI rooms, yes always using my X32s.
Lots of rooms have their own sound, but ones where I bring my rig: Bell In Hand, The Burren, The Derryfield, Manchvegas, Murphys, RiRa, etc.

 

[iaresee]

Manchvegas, Murphys

Let me know if and when you're playing Manchvegas? I like a night out in The Big City.

 

[Tremonti]

Just arrived in mail. It is so tiny! I am really looking forward to seeing how this works both live and studio.

 

[simeon]

i managed to grab a used XR18 yesterday from a local guy who'd barely used it. spent the afternoon labelling channels and doing all the prep and routing. tested the wifi (pretty bad....will use an old router). tested the audio interface and made a logic template ready for recording. doing the first soundcheck should be relatively painless. i'll use my laptop for the first few gigs and then switch over to the ipad i think.

one problem i need to solve is figuring out how the singer can turn his delay on and off. he's using a digitech pedal at the moment, but it would be nice to ditch it and use the built in fx. i could do it for him by muting the fx send, but he likes to do it himself. it feels like a midi footswitch would be the only option (i won't be able to get him to use the monitor app on his phone)

 

[Tremonti]

We've been using a Mackie DL32R for about 6-7 years.

It's can do 6 stereo aux outputs, so we all get personal stereo mixes.

There's been little in the way of issues. Works from iOS and Android and somewhat recently they added a version for PC and (I think) Mac.

More inputs/outputs than most of the competition and better cost.

Requires an external router.

We use it for in ears (we're 100% direct, no stage volume).

We connect it to the ProTools computer for 32 channels of recording. It can also record to a directly attached drive or to the MasterFader (mixer) app, although I never use that.

Man that thing is gorgeous! Best looking rack input I have seen.

 

[BBN]

Man that thing is gorgeous! Best looking rack input I have seen.

View attachment 123273

I'm going to take credit for that (ok, not really).
When the DL1608 was first announced at NAMM, I asked the guys at Mackie - 'hey, how come you didn't make one that is just a rack with XLR inputs?'
They said - 'what do you mean?'
I said - 'you know, like a rack panel of just XLRs...you don't need any other hardware, just a wifi connection'
They said - 'hmmm'

 

[BBN]

Man that thing is gorgeous! Best looking rack input I have seen.

View attachment 123273

Also, if you need that channel count - get a X32 Core and a Midas DL32 rack. Same pretty design, but the Core gives you 'some' front panel controls that you can use in an emergency. (like a button to quickly mute all channels...or a master volume adjustment)

 

[BBN]

i managed to grab a used XR18 yesterday from a local guy who'd barely used it. spent the afternoon labelling channels and doing all the prep and routing. tested the wifi (pretty bad....will use an old router). tested the audio interface and made a logic template ready for recording. doing the first soundcheck should be relatively painless. i'll use my laptop for the first few gigs and then switch over to the ipad i think.

one problem i need to solve is figuring out how the singer can turn his delay on and off. he's using a digitech pedal at the moment, but it would be nice to ditch it and use the built in fx. i could do it for him by muting the fx send, but he likes to do it himself. it feels like a midi footswitch would be the only option (i won't be able to get him to use the monitor app on his phone)

I also brought a laptop as a hard wired safety measure (at first).
But then once you get used to mixing on glass, and you keep a spare router in a gig bag, I stopped taking a laptop.

 

[SJB]

My quick thought - I have an XR-18. I use it in three ways - in the home studio as primary AD interface, as an IEM mixer for band practice, and as a primary mixer for live shows. I love it. So easy to move and set up. It is the second coolest piece of gear that I own. I have had no problems with it, and haven’t noticed any latency issues (kind of afraid to listen more closely now). But it is one Bang-On piece of gear.