Which other 24-fret superstrats hold up to the fretwork, playability, and quality of a Suhr Modern?

emw1sns said:
For us lucky folks here in the ripoff Britain, Angels seem to start from around £4.5k and head on up from there. On the Peach Guitars website -which is the UK's only Anderson dealer - Angels range from £4.5k for a solid finish to £5.8k for the fancy stuff.
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I haven't bought an Anderson in about 5 years, so I don't know if this info still applies:
TA used to allow their dealers to give a discount of up to 20%. As I occasionally browse various TA dealer websites, it doesn't appear that a discount is being applied to many current inventory listings. It might be useful to pick up the phone and ask for those interested.
 
I haven't had my hands on a Suhr, and stopped looking around at superstrat type guitars once I got a JP15 a few years ago.

Build quality is typically excellent high-end EBMM, features and design are a great fit for me when I'm in the mood to do my very creative interpretation of shredding.
 
AtomicJeff said:
I haven't bought an Anderson in about 5 years, so I don't know if this info still applies:
TA used to allow their dealers to give a discount of up to 20%. As I occasionally browse various TA dealer websites, it doesn't appear that a discount is being applied to many current inventory listings. It might be useful to pick up the phone and ask for those interested.
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I saw a post from an Anderson dealer in an Anderson guitars Facebook group just last week describing that Anderson no longer allows dealers to advertise any discount off of the MSRP. You might be able to get a discount in a direct interaction, but it is unlikely you will see discounts explicitly stated from authorized dealers anymore.
 
Which other 24-fret superstrats hold up to the fretwork, playability, and quality of a Suhr Modern?
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A few hundred dollars worth of competent fret work can make almost any guitar play like a boutique guitar.
 
Andy Eagle said:
Only if the neck flexes in an appropriate manner and the truss rod is functioning to provide the relief in the right area. Both of these things will be a lottery in a budget instrument and both required as a foundation of good fret work.
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True. But it can also be a crap shoot in more expensive guitars.

Most of the guitars I run into have a properly-functioning truss rod, regardless of price. Biggest swing is around the seventh fret pretty consistently. If the neck is uneven, and the cause isn’t fret wear, it’s almost always because the neck has taken a set. That can be planed out.
 
Rex said:
True. But it can also be a crap shoot in more expensive guitars.

Most of the guitars I run into have a properly-functioning truss rod, regardless of price. Biggest swing is around the seventh fret pretty consistently. If the neck is uneven, and the cause isn’t fret wear, it’s almost always because the neck has taken a set. That can be planed out.
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I bet I can find issues on half down to the wood selection and gap in the truss rod cavity which is also a tone suck.
You can't get away from the fact that cheaper stuff comes with random issues even if the design is fundamentally good and is usually isn't. And you can't plane out a poor flex demographic under tension and it won't behave in a linear way if you try anything else.
When you buy quality it doesn't' guarantee it but it severely improves the odds.
If you really know what to look for and have a large sample to cherry pick from you may find a something but for most people it will be a lottery.
 
Andy Eagle said:
I bet I can find issues on half down to the wood selection and gap in the truss rod cavity which is also a tone suck.
You can't get away from the fact that cheaper stuff comes with random issues even if the design is fundamentally good and is usually isn't. And you can't plane out a poor flex demographic under tension and it won't behave in a linear way if you try anything else.
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I’d like to know more about that. Can you recommend some study materials?
 
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Rex said:
Is like to know more about that. Can you recommend some study materials?
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Unfortunately no because every one seems to either not understand the effects of keep their research under wraps. I can give you examples of redesigns that were as a result of this issue
The Kaman Bar truss rod and neck attachment on all US Ovation. The mark 2 Taylor neck design with stainless steel struts. The lengthening of the heel on USA PRS. The addition of carbon fibre rods in guitar necks . The use of quarter sawn maple by high end builders. The only way to read numbers on the effect of a relief curve geometry is a Plek machine.
 
Andy Eagle said:
If you really know what to look for and have a large sample to cherry pick from you may find a something but for most people it will be a lottery.
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You kinda need to have an idea of what you're looking for, anyway. I agree that "buying quality" can increase your odds of getting a good one, at least with custom builds. But the tendency to trust price can put blinders on a person. I've seen many examples of that trust being unfounded.

I get that fit and solid contact improve the performance of a guitar, both physically and sonically. but what is a "flex demographic?" The Internet is strangely silent on this.
 
Rex said:
You kinda need to have an idea of what you're looking for, anyway. I agree that "buying quality" can increase your odds of getting a good one, at least with custom builds. But the tendency to trust price can put blinders on a person. I've seen many examples of that trust being unfounded.

I get that fit and solid contact improve the performance of a guitar, both physically and sonically. but what is a "flex demographic?" The Internet is strangely silent on this.
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Putting string tension on a neck causes it to flex and the truss rod doesn’t necessarily counter it precisely. The neck always flexes most at the weakest point and that means that is the lowest point in the relief curve. But this is often not the most desirable position for this and the curve is not linear. Wood choice and neck joint design affects this but each individual piece of wood has its own unique effect. By choosing quarter sawn you are able to reduce the unpredictable nature of wood but just any old piece is leaning heavily on the design to control it.
If you have ever seen a guitar that just doesn’t buzz and plays perfectly even when set up with a low action or the opposite. A guitar that has perfectly level frets and everything you can measure with anything other than Plek is perfect but it tends to buzz all over the upper register more easily than it should. This is the effect and understanding what is going on will help you design ways to improve the randomness of wood. Take a look at the design details of the products I cited above that all redesigned their necks to try to counter this effect.
 
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Also the perfect relief curve doesn’t change for string gauge or playing style really. Radius and the interaction between a cylinder and a cone are all part of this too .Or even two slightly different cones in the case of most compound radius fingerboards.
String clearances at the next fret at all points at a given action are the data you need. If you bend strings the data says flatter the better with no radius producing the best results. Vigier Shawn Lane is the example. A perfect flat fingerboard with an incredibly small relief in the exact right spot and shape will give the most next fret clearance at the given action everywhere on the neck. This is the dynamic width that the guitar has for you to play so it sounds better at the given action too. Intonation is also better because this enables the action to be lower at the same dynamic range.
None of this is a matter of opinion it is just counting.
Introducing radius’s and deviation from this relief geometry just reduces the performance at the given action everywhere.
Also if you actually look at the amount of next fret clearance you will see a tiny measurement and adding to the action has an incredibly small impact so you can see why getting this right or as close as possible is so important to performance.
Even if you prefer a medium or high action this will just widen your available dynamic range and is still objectively better.
 
Andy Eagle said:
Also the perfect relief curve doesn’t change for string gauge or playing style really. Radius and the interaction between a cylinder and a cone are all part of this too .Or even two slightly different cones in the case of most compound radius fingerboards.
String clearances at the next fret at all points at a given action are the data you need. If you bend strings the data says flatter the better with no radius producing the best results. Vigier Shawn Lane is the example. A perfect flat fingerboard with an incredibly small relief in the exact right spot and shape will give the most next fret clearance at the given action everywhere on the neck. This is the dynamic width that the guitar has for you to play so it sounds better at the given action too. Intonation is also better because this enables the action to be lower at the same dynamic range.
None of this is a matter of opinion it is just counting.
Introducing radius’s and deviation from this relief geometry just reduces the performance at the given action everywhere.
Also if you actually look at the amount of next fret clearance you will see a tiny measurement and adding to the action has an incredibly small impact so you can see why getting this right or as close as possible is so important to performance.
Even if you prefer a medium or high action this will just widen your available dynamic range and is still objectively better.
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Since the Vigier Shawn Lane seems to be in scarce supply, are there any other quality guitars with perfectly flat fretboard, ideally reasonably priced?
 
Dave Merrill said:
Since the Vigier Shawn Lane seems to be in scarce supply, are there any other quality guitars with perfectly flat fretboard, ideally reasonably priced?
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No , it was a push too far for players who are very conservative in nature. Even though classical guitar has always had this. It’s not true that a radius is more ergonomic or even more comfortable for the hand but it is just what everyone is used too.
In practice something from around 15” gives you most of the benefit. The other reason that all Vigier guitars can be set up to play amazingly well is the 1090 neck design prevents incompetent adjustment and produces the correct relief profile.
Also no air gaps or moving parts in the neck is better for resonance. I know you don’t like the one you have but I suspect that is because the tonal features that you like in a Strat are down to some of the construction elements that are in the Strat but not a hard tail Vigier. The bridge on a vintage style Strat has a huge influence on the overall potential sound, particularly the saddles and springs. Get a set of raw vintage saddle for it and it will make a difference that you can hear but I get you are unsure that you want to spend money on a guitar you are looking to sell.
 
Andy Eagle said:
No , it was a push too far for players who are very conservative in nature. Even though classical guitar has always had this. It’s not true that a radius is more ergonomic or even more comfortable for the hand but it is just what everyone is used too.
In practice something from around 15” gives you most of the benefit. The other reason that all Vigier guitars can be set up to play amazingly well is the 1090 neck design prevents incompetent adjustment and produces the correct relief profile.
Also no air gaps or moving parts in the neck is better for resonance. I know you don’t like the one you have but I suspect that is because the tonal features that you like in a Strat are down to some of the construction elements that are in the Strat but not a hard tail Vigier. The bridge on a vintage style Strat has a huge influence on the overall potential sound, particularly the saddles and springs. Get a set of raw vintage saddle for it and it will make a difference that you can hear but I get you are unsure that you want to spend money on a guitar you are looking to sell.
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Hmm, new saddles wouldn't be a lot of money, way less than new pickups, which is the possible changeover i keep thinking about, and still am. Any particular saddles you'd recommend for that guitar?

It really is a conundrum. I keep thinking maybe one day I'll pick it up and love it, since they're so highly regarded, but that hasn't happened yet. Maybe tomorrow!
 
Dave Merrill said:
Hmm, new saddles wouldn't be a lot of money, way less than new pickups, which is the possible changeover i keep thinking about, and still am. Any particular saddles you'd recommend for that guitar?

It really is a conundrum. I keep thinking maybe one day I'll pick it up and love it, since they're so highly regarded, but that hasn't happened yet. Maybe tomorrow!
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Raw vintage like I said above. The narrow version.
 
Rex said:
A few hundred dollars worth of competent fret work can make almost any guitar play like a boutique guitar.
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Another point about budget guitars:
They are all about the superficial, the finish, the spec that they can put in the ad. They are sometimes solid but this is rare coupled with random selection of wood and materials selected purely for appearance, they are not bargains . Some hardware choices work in low budget (tele bridge ,vintage strat trem as long as you don't use it )but many don't. Look at the cheap Floyd copies they are a liability and require extensive work to fit a real one (prior to the special) that often cost more than the instrument. If you want a cheap 24 fret guitar buy either an Ibanez Genesis if you want a floyd or a Charvel (floyd or 510). Cheaper would need to be on a per example basis to not be taking a risk.
 
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