which IEMs.... JH13v2, UE18, JH10x3, UE7 ???

brokenvail said:
I agree. These guys make suggestions based on tradition guitar players not guys using a modeler who want flat response
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The real amp mic'ed into the mixer and folded back to your in ears is pretty similar to a modeler into the mixer and folded back?

What makes the real amp different in this scenario (other than being able to hear a little stage wash from open mics)?
 
barhrecords said:
The real amp mic'ed into the mixer and folded back to your in ears is pretty similar to a modeler into the mixer and folded back?

What makes the real amp different in this scenario (other than being able to hear a little stage wash from open mics)?
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It is more about the mentality. Tradition guitar setups are not interested in neutral sounds. Look at the eq graphs of what some of the models from various makers show. Extra bass, a boost or cut in mid range ect. I personal tweak on a CLR which is supposed to be pretty flat. That is the what I personally want in an iem. Everyone is different in that regard I guess
 
I actually do use a mic'd cab, but still want the truest sound possible, not an idealized version.

If it sucks in my ears, it'll probably suck to the audience.

Then again, maybe a slightly scooped IEM would be ideal, since I wouldn't turn them up anywhere near FOH levels... can cut while sounding thick in my ears?

1st time IEMer if you couldn't tell. Too damn expensive to get wrong the first time.
 
My 2 cents, I've been using UE18's for a couple years now. I actually had mine completely re-made after getting new molds made, which they graciously did gratis, as my first set shouldn't have been made at all (the molds were missing a key feature that provides isolation)

But even the new (replacement) ones still don't isolate well enough, I think. I have some cheaper dual driver ones that isolate far better (yet are less comfortable and sound worse overall).

Given that UE's are used so much by well known artists, I think part of it is their main user base play on larger stages where isolation isn't as big an issue because everyone is further apart. I don't know for sure, but I'm ready to try something else, I think. I've heard good things about the 65's and JH's, so maybe I'll try those. My issue is that I end up turning my IEM mix up louder to compensate for the bleed I'm getting from the drummer and other instruments. We run tracks and a click too, so it can get pretty crowded, mix wise.
 
I would argue that your needs as a live musician are different from those of a mixing engineer. Being a singer and guitar player, I actually prefer a small bump in the mids. Those are the frequencies, I need the most to get my intonation right. No in-ears sound like the FOH anyway.
 
Smittefar said:
I would argue that your needs as a live musician are different from those of a mixing engineer. Being a singer and guitar player, I actually prefer a small bump in the mids. Those are the frequencies, I need the most to get my intonation right. No in-ears sound like the FOH anyway.
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I agree. For performance I want a mid boosted guitar and prefer my vocal low passed pretty heavily.
 
Rotti said:
I've been looking closely at getting either A5's or A10's with custom molds. Would you say the 'ambient' aspects of the ADEL series is a benefit or a distraction?
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My wife had the universal fit U4's for on stage at our church and loved them (she isn't singing as much so my dad bought them from us). Me playing bass or guitar I tried them out as well, it's hard to describe but the ADEL tech allows for louder volumes with distinct clarity without the pain in the ear drums "feeling" loud. No ringing and no ear fatigue at about 85 DBs+ (estimation, I don't actually measure how loud my IEMs are).

At any rate, if you can afford the 64 Audio A5 customs, they would be worth it to me. Amazing technology and distinct clarity even in the universals. You could order a pair of universal U4's or U8's then return them for custom molds if you're happy with the tech. 64 Audio is a great company to work with from experience as many of my friends leverage those IEMs as well as myself. Wish I could afford them but I'm just not there yet, I have a "generic" pair of IEMs from a custom shop and paid a lower price for them. The ADEL could really save your ears in the long run. When evaluating them on their site, make sure you follow their recommendations such as A2's Bass/Drums | A3's Vocalist | A4's Guitar/Vocalist | A5 Guitar/Vocalist/Bass. I think the reason for this is the shelfing they have in the tech and their intended purpose for the specific drivers.

Enjoy and happy IEM'ing!
 
Rotti said:
Flattest EQ curves.
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brokenvail said:
I agree. These guys make suggestions based on tradition guitar players not guys using a modeler who want flat response
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Rotti said:
I actually do use a mic'd cab, but still want the truest sound possible, not an idealized version.
If it sucks in my ears, it'll probably suck to the audience.
1st time IEMer if you couldn't tell. Too damn expensive to get wrong the first time.
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Honestly.. I think you guys are over-thinking/over-analyzing the IEM thing... I have not found one vendor that provides FRFR IEM's.. AFAIK - they don't exist... even the JH SIren series are NOT flat - and at around $3k a pop <shrug> ??
The only vendors that publishes EQ curves are UE and 1964 (that I know of).

And "If it sucks in my ears, it'll probably suck to the audience" isn't necessarily true.. depends on how you tap your IEM mix and whether you have someone mixing FOH/mons separately or you run your own!

Before you run out and buy customs, try universal fit.. See if you can find some local folks that have them - so you can compare models... you CAN'T try others customs as they don't fit (duh!).. so universals are as close as you can get to a true test. SEAL (for low-end) is [generally] better on customs, and most vendors will send you a set of demo universals (for a fee). Vendors also go to the major audiophile events around the country, so that's another chance to demo various vendors and models.

I'm no expert, just a local yokel who's run the gamut of going IEM, from various clunky wired solutions thru various wireless and varying quality solutions over the last 7 yrs. Also run thru Westone, Carvin, Shure, Senn and 1964 Ears buds and Carvin, Shure and Senn wireless units during that time with varying combination/success rates.
During that time I have observed that the folks who have the most trouble moving to IEM's are guitar players - MOSTLY those who use tube amps (modelers move more easily), along with bass players. The result of that is what I've said before - get the best multi-driver custom molds you can afford. But that doesn't mean one should START OUT there... !!

My current rig is Senn G3 wireless (from an X32 feed) into 1964 A8's which I use for guitar and bass and couldn't be happier. It's not cheap, but I got here thru trial and error, and a lot of $$ in upgrades along the way. The bright side is that I sold all the old stuff (except for the 1964 Qi's) so some of the expense was recouped!
 
s0c9 said:
And "If it sucks in my ears, it'll probably suck to the audience" isn't necessarily true.. depends on how you tap your IEM mix and whether you have someone mixing FOH/mons separately or you run your own!

Before you run out and buy customs, try universal fit..
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Props and +1 on this analysis.

A FOH monitor reference in your ears is not always 100% what your audience will be hearing because, well, think about it... You have a wireless or wired receiver that is sending signal from some board from an auxiliary (most times) send or directly from the FAS device which isn't always flat. Your FOH speakers are amplified from some source and the EQ curve on either the amplification and speakers is entirely different than what you are referencing in your ears. As @s0c9 indicated, there is no such thing as FRFR IEMs. My approach has always been to build my FOH presets with my studio monitors to my ears, then bring it to the gig location and hope for the best lol ;) . It's worked for multiple venues and still sounds great in my ears as well as FOH. Good luck fellow Fractalites.
 
I can't speak for OP but I know there is no FRFR IEM except maybe those JH's that are close to 3k. I have seen a few other makers show some EQ info but right now I am drawing a blank of what their name is. I use Universal Fit UE900s and I love the clarity I get. It is not flat but I know what the difference it is making to my tone and I can judge it accordingly
 
I haven't had my 1964 - A3's for very long, but so far I'm very happy with them.
I'm yet to gig with them in, but hoping to get a few rehearsals in soon.

Does anybody here use ambient mic's? How have you set them up?
 
Sonofiam said:
We have two set up on either side of the stage and run stereo into our monitor board.
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Are they facing the audience? What kind of mic? How high from the ground?
I've thought about just putting an omni mic half way up on my mic stand, but I'm not sure yet.
 
Callan said:
Are they facing the audience? What kind of mic? How high from the ground?
I've thought about just putting an omni mic half way up on my mic stand, but I'm not sure yet.
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They are Rode M5's, stage is elevated about 4 feet and the mics are onstage on 1 foot stands. They are facing the crowd angled up at 45 degrees and about 10 feet from the front row. Before getting them I'd run my in-ears with one out to get the ambient sounds. Now I'm using both, not quite the same feel but it does make a difference.
 
The Etymotic ER4SR are studio reference and are extraordinary cheap too. I think that Radley was using them (ER4S) with Neil Young.

Someone has experience with them?
 
I also think there is some overthinking going on. I have custom triple drivers, that to my ear are very flat. I put a smiley face curve on my Sennheiser IEMG3 pack since it has an eq. I also pan stuff around the stereo space. Does it sound exactly like what my cab does? no, does it sound exactly like my stuff mice'd up in a studio under ideal conditions.. no. It sounds like my monitor does in my ear. I strive for a cd quality type mix in our ears. I gate all stage mic's, to keep bleed down, drums, vocals, instruments are panned according to where everyone stands. This opens the mix up and keeps it from crowding up the middle.

We don't even do sound checks anymore, just hi hat count go. The benefit for me is, I can hear everything clearly, vocals are top priority in this band, so that has to be heard. I have it where I can hear everything just like I like it so I can perform without worry.

We played a few weeks ago without ears, using wedges, and I didn't like it at all. Drums were blasting over everything, I could barely hear my guitar, had to blast it, walk over to the other side of the stage, no guitar, etc. Ears ringing (had plugs).

In the end, some guys just don't like it, it's not for everyone. No need to try to fit a square peg in a round hole. Use what you like.
 
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