Where Does The Axe Feel Come From

J

journeyman73

Member
So, I am running my Ax8 into a proper tube amp and guitar cab.

I ma disabling the Cab block but using various amp models (and the modeled power amps).

I guess my question is, I am right in assuming that the various amp models (800, slo, plexi, etc) have a 'feel' modeled to them that is attempting to be true to their physical namesakes - and that this distinctive feel would be retained even when i run the Ax8 through and actual power amp and guitar cab.

I know the cabs and IR's have a feel aspect modeled to them - but i guess i am wondering if i have the cab disabled, there is still a feel element to the actual amp models that i am still experiencing when running as above?

hopefully, the question makes sense!
 
Yes.

I associate feel with non-linear blocks. The blocks that add distortion.

In your setup, you are using the Fractal as a preamp + Efx rig.

There definitely is dynamic interaction between the player and the preamp (feel).

What you aren't getting is the power amp modeling interaction.

I don't really count the Cab block as "feel" but there are parameters in there that can add distortion too; so if you are using those, it might also count.
 
So, where is the power amp feel coming from?

If im running into my power station, isnt that part of the feel coming from the Ps modeled IR and its amp?

I guess whats stirking me is when i use my physical amps through the power station and same cab (used as attenuator), there is a huge difference in feel across my amps...when i try different AX8 amp models out in the same way (ie through the PS and the same cab) there is a little bit of sameness of feel across the amp models (at least not anywhere near the variance in feel i get with using different physical amps plugged into the same chain and attenuating...

Is it because my physical amps power amps are also coming into play, even though im attenuating through the PS? But then dont the AX8 amp models also model/mimic those same power amp charctersitics specific to each amp model?
 
Power amp feel comes from Master Volume setting and Supply Sag. Adjust those to adjust the feel.
 
So do the people that use the AX8 into a power-amp leave the power section on or have it off in the AX8 ? I've been turning it off but I notice that when I audition new amps, (that come with everything still turned on) they are much more 'bottom endy' and alive. Some sound odd but some sound really good. What do you all do ?
 
REDD said:
Some of my patches feel too compressed, will master volume or sag help or maybe another knob? Advice? Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, both. Also Xformer Match. And Input Drive of course, depending on the amp model.
 
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mmpete said:
So do the people that use the AX8 into a power-amp leave the power section on or have it off in the AX8 ? I've been turning it off but I notice that when I audition new amps, (that come with everything still turned on) they are much more 'bottom endy' and alive. Some sound odd but some sound really good. What do you all do ?
Click to expand...

Neutral power amp, like a Matrix? Keep Power Amp Modeling turned on, always.

AX8 into tube power amp? Turn off Power Amp Modeling. (At low volume levels, you may like it turned on for more bass. But at higher volume levels it will sound mushy and muddy).
 
Interesting, never heard of the power station. Do I get this right?

When you use a physical amp into your power station, you practically have the following signal chain:
Guitar -> phys. preamp -> phys. poweramp -> power station [attenuator -> phys. poweramp] -> cab

In this case you have twice the poweramp effects.

When you use the AX8 into power station, you would turn cab + P.A. modelling off and have the following chain:
Guitar -> AX8 (preamp only) -> power station [line in -> phys. poweramp] -> cab

Now you have coloration of one preamp and one poweramp. In this case I expect to have a certain sameness, since all the differences in the (not) modeled power sections are omitted.
I had a similar experience (sameness) using the Axe Standard into my tube amp effect return. I now prefer using a solid state poweramp and P.A. modelling on when going into a guitar cab.
 
REDD said:
Some of my patches feel too compressed, will master volume or sag help or maybe another knob? Advice? Thanks
Click to expand...

Turn down Master Volume and/or Supply Sag to start. It might be preamp compression so also try reducing Preamp Comp. Often times it's simply too much gain. People inherently use way more gain with modelers because they use them at lower volumes.
 
FractalAudio said:
Turn down Master Volume and/or Supply Sag to start. It might be preamp compression so also try reducing Preamp Comp. Often times it's simply too much gain. People inherently use way more gain with modelers because they use them at lower volumes.
Click to expand...
I do use plenty of gain! Thanks so much. There is none better than Cliff Chase at customer support!!! Seriously.
 
RB_Guitar said:
Interesting, never heard of the power station. Do I get this right?

When you use a physical amp into your power station, you practically have the following signal chain:
Guitar -> phys. preamp -> phys. poweramp -> power station [attenuator -> phys. poweramp] -> cab

In this case you have twice the poweramp effects.

When you use the AX8 into power station, you would turn cab + P.A. modelling off and have the following chain:
Guitar -> AX8 (preamp only) -> power station [line in -> phys. poweramp] -> cab

Now you have coloration of one preamp and one poweramp. In this case I expect to have a certain sameness, since all the differences in the (not) modeled power sections are omitted.
I had a similar experience (sameness) using the Axe Standard into my tube amp effect return. I now prefer using a solid state poweramp and P.A. modelling on when going into a guitar cab.
Click to expand...

by doing it the way you are describing, you would be losing all the modeled power amp vagaries of each model.

one could debate the relative coloration of SS vs tube power amps, of course - but the bottom line, to me, is a device like the PS (or any intended reamping device) is intended to be predominantly neutral (particularly at low-to-moderate volume levels, when you are not distorting the PS) - this is why people find it an effective tool for maintaining the original amps tone and feel when using its reamping capabilities.

i would expect the Axe product to work, similar to an actual amp - and so you would want to leave the power amp modeling on.
 
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