What's all the Hoopla about Scenes?

MKeditor

Experienced
This is an attempt to understand. Scenes have become very popular with our tribe. I've been reading about scenes but I don't understand the huge appeal. From what I've gleamed, a scene is limited to the blocks and signal path of the patch. A patch isn't limited at all. The only advantages of a scene I can see are:

1) Seemless audio when switching scenes...unless your switching amps.

2) Less CPU usage due to using less blocks.

Other than that, it appears that a patch can do everything that a scene does. But a scene can't do everything a patch can.

You still need a switch to control scenes. Therefore in post cases, you have to sacrifice a patch button for a scene button.

What am I missing?
 
If you want to change amp Chanel’s, add delay, and compressor all at once, scene change is one button vs 3 stomps
You can have this and any other combo switching presets without doing the stomping you are talking about. The only advantage with scenes that I see is the seamless gap. Scenes and presets can be setup the same as far as functions go. Just a bit gappy with presets.
 
Maybe a different way to think about it is, you can stay on a single preset and have Scene NAMEs of up to 8 completely different tones — it is like a collection of 8 presets in one location, each with a name you choose.

If you are playing songs with different guitar parts throughout, chances are very very good you could design one preset to handle up to 8 different guitar or other sounds in one song, with seamless switching and no audio drop out.

So - you could do a set list with one preset for each song, and then name the scenes to cover the song parts... intro, verse, chorus, bridge, lead, outro, for example. You can do some of this now on Axe-Fx or Ax8, but you can’t name the scenes, and you have less programming options by block .

for example, you can have up to 8 different amps in Axe III, but only four in Axe-Fx, and two in Ax8, inside one single preset... you can have 16 different drive block choices in Axe III, compared to 4 in Axe-Fx or Ax8....
 
The III can do (almost) seamless amp switching now. The II can do it if you use 2 Amp blocks.

In the II, you can have truly seamless switching if you set things up correctly.

In the III, there is currently a small gap if any block changes Channel during a scene change BUT Cliff has fixed this in the upcoming FW release.

If you don't care about seamless switching, you can use multiple presets to simulate the same thing BUT you need up to 8 presets to do the same thing scenes can do in 1 preset.

I just played a 1 hour set last night with 1 preset and 8 scenes. ;)
 
I find scenes to be incredibly convenient for changing what effects are on, toggling the X/Y states of blocks etc. Rather than having to duplicate the same signal chain with small changes in each preset so you get your clean/od/lead or whatever typical combinations of settings you need, you can just use a single preset and use scenes to cover that.

I have my presets usually set around a particular sound using a certain amp/cab model and then I have different effects combinations etc for different situations and sounds.
 
I don't use scenes all the time, but I find it so much easier to contain what I want for a given song or songs within one preset rather than having to maintain a number of them. If you move them to a new location in the AFX you have to remember to move them all; if you change something (for example, a different drive type, or you change the level of the amp) you have to remember to do it in all the presets. Much easier for me to maintain levels within a preset than between multiple ones.
 
I find scenes to be incredibly convenient for changing what effects are on, toggling the X/Y states of blocks etc. Rather than having to duplicate the same signal chain with small changes in each preset so you get your clean/od/lead or whatever typical combinations of settings you need, you can just use a single preset and use scenes to cover that.

I have my presets usually set around a particular sound using a certain amp/cab model and then I have different effects combinations etc for different situations and sounds.

This.

It's organization for me.

I base all my 5 scenes around the concept that I'm using one/two amps. 1. Amp/Verb only. 2. Amp/Verb/Drive. 3. Amp/Verb/Drive/Delay. 4. Amp/Verb/Delay. 5. Miscellaneous (Usually Amp/Verb/Phaser/Trem/clean/dirty sound/whatever I want at a touch.) This way I ALWAYS know which scene is giving me what. My IA switches are setup so I can use other stuff on the fly if I want to use it. Also the volume boost is nice.

It's all personal preference IMO. I don't get why you would NOT want to run scenes, but whatever works for you is the best.

R
 
Here's an example:

The set calls for Johnny's Theme by The Wangbangers (or worse yet, the band leader calls for Johnny's Theme in the middle of a completely different set). With scenes, I don't have to remember that I use Preset 3 for the intro, Preset 7 for rhythm, and Preset 12 for lead. I just go to my Johnny's Theme preset and remember "Scene 1, Scene 2, Scene 3."
 
There is no “hoopla”, it’s just one of many ways of working.

Some people like to use just their guitar volume pot, some like to use scenes (or channel changes) per block(s), others like to just switch presets. Some use a combination of all of the above.

I personally use presets per song, scenes for changes like kicking in a delay and boost for a solo with a single button.

That’s what is nice with FAS, your not forced to work any one way, so everyone can use what ever means works best for them and their style of playing etc
 
Imagine having a few amps, speaker cabs and a dozen favorite pedals - then imagine all the different versions of settings you would like to have with the convenience clicking one switch. Transitions are smoother this way when playing live also.
After the addition of channels plus scenes one preset = 5 presets at least.
 
the first reason i used Scenes when it became available was to cut down on the number of presets i used for "very similar" sounds.

on the Ultra, i used 5 presets regularly. for the most part, they all had the exact same blocks, set exactly the same.

P1 - Clean, no effects
P2 - Clean, add chorus and quiet delay
P3 - Clean, add volume boost, turn off chorus, longer louder delay
P4 - Distortion, rhythm tone
P5 - Distortion, lead tone, add delay

for simplicity of organization, i had the same additional effects (phaser, rotary, etc) in all 5 presets, mostly because at the time, foot controllers could not change buttons per preset.

P1 - P3 were exactly the same, except different blocks were turned on and off. and if i needed to change the Amp block in P1, guess what... i had to go to P2 and P3 to change it as well. P4 and P5 used different amp blocks, but all else was the same except for blocks on/off as well.

this was typical of how most modelers worked back then, with things completely separate. with real pedals, i would have to press multiple pedals each time i wanted to change sounds, rather than just pressing ONE button. for me, this is the main appeal of digital gear - one button to change multiple things, and also that my settings are saved without risk of knocking a knob during transport or setup.

enter the Axe-Fx II. i got it when it launched, and it did NOT launch with Scenes - that came in FW9 i believe. but the Axe2 did have GLOBAL BLOCKS. this let us link blocks to some "template" and among presets where blocks were linked, a change in one Preset changed all linked blocks. this helped to keep things organized and make your sound the same among your different Presets.

but i still had the same 5 preset setup, and all 5 presets were still doing basically the same thing, but just turning things on or off, with really only the Amp block switching.

then Scenes appeared in FW9. and then i could use ONE preset. since my 5 preset setup was basically all the same blocks, this worked perfectly as Scenes can turn blocks on/off and change XY state of the block. so instead of hopping around 5 presets, i stayed in one, and just used Scenes.

what is the technical advantage? maybe none, really, since i was changing Amp types, i didn't get the seamless switching - but i really don't need it, since i got used to changing sounds with a Mesa Roadster which also didn't have seamless channel switching. but it helped my organization since i knew exactly what effects were in the preset and their settings - i was just turning things on and off, like you would a pedalboard of real effects. there weren't any surprises.

because a preset CAN change everything, sometimes you may forget that you changed this, or added that, and whoops, i thought i had a quiet sound on that preset....

i think Scenes are great. but i also think it depends on the complexity of your presets and sounds. there are many people using the Axe-Fx - with all of its advanced functions - the same way one would use a processor from the 90s. and that's ok! 1 preset per sound, very few blocks, very little real-time control of parameters. just like a 1-to-1 sort of deal. again, that's totally ok.

it depends on how you can visualize and organize your sound, rig, and setup. for some, losing the visual cue of the real pedals in front of you is a huge, huge change. and some who have been using the Axe and MFC for years now still aren't completely comfortable with not having the dials of all the pedals in front of them. some people just want to SEE that the phaser rate is set to 1 o clock on the dial, even if they never need to change it - they just want to see it there before they turn on the phaser.

while i do think that mentality should change now in 2018, old habits die hard. it's funny - i know die hard analog guys who have purposefully shunned anything digital all these years of guitar playing. with Digitech and Line 6 bringing affordable modeling and digital effects into real popularity in the 90s (Boss was always there, but didn't cause the surge the others did), they didn't try anything at all - "it sounds digital" i was told. and sure, a real tube amp that you've been playing for 30 years is something you're just used to.

but then the Axe came along and for the first time... there was something... but they still ignored the standard and the ultra, and tried to ignore the Axe2. but with the later FW of the Axe2 their interest got piqued. they just had to try it. and for many, yup, it was close. exact for them? maybe not. but close enough. suddenly that 50 pound amp with their 20 pound pedal board just didn't seem as appealing as a 14 pound rack case... so they tried it. and they liked it. but again, the habitual things were gone - messing with the pedal board connections before the gig, adjusting knobs on pedals - not because you had to, but because it's just what you do. seeing all the knobs while you play, you know, just to make sure they're still set the way you want. and much more.

i digress.

Scenes are an option. if Presets work for you, use them. i use Scenes heavily. for the last 6 years, i've basically used ONE preset at every gig. sometimes it's a different preset per band/gig, but it's typically just one. i know what options i've given myself in that preset, and i've setup scenes for different sounds/options within that preset. and i give myself a few switches to turn on effects that aren't programmed in scenes. it's easy to remember during the gig, i have a wealth of tone options, and i'm NOT changing everything (presets) during the show and accidentally using the wrong sound.

here's a video (i used to charge for this) i made a while ago which explained the history of Presets, XY and Scenes. it's always good to know how/why a feature developed as it helps you determine when/why to use it:

 
This discussion has me reconsidering my future setup.

Question, is this possible.

Have a preset per song list loaded up. Press one button to advance scene for each change. When the song is done the same button advances to scene one of the next song. In theory you would only step on one button all night. Possible?
 
Have a preset per song list loaded up. Press one button to advance scene for each change. When the song is done the same button advances to scene one of the next song. In theory you would only step on one button all night. Possible?
i don't think so. you'll probably have to press at most 2 buttons. Scenes belong to Presets. therefore a Scene button could not change to a new preset. i understand the idea though.
 
This discussion has me reconsidering my future setup.

Question, is this possible.

Have a preset per song list loaded up. Press one button to advance scene for each change. When the song is done the same button advances to scene one of the next song. In theory you would only step on one button all night. Possible?

When the fc12 arrives I'm thinking one switch brings up a bank of 10 presets. Select one and that automatically sends you to scene selection & stompbox mode for each preset. I think if I wanted to advance presets I would use one switch for up and one for down so I could go back easily if I clicked to far ahead.
 
I couldn't imagine working without scenes - as other have said, it's a way of changing multi-parameters all at once with one button click and on a II, much faster (less disruptive for me) than a full preset change. They are always 1-5 for me (1-4 clean to mean w/#4 being lead/solo; and #5 for oddball song-specific toanz).
 
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