What would the new-gen even have that the current gen doesn’t?

fuzzydude said:
They may become a new standard, but one we might regret. Like cell phones with batteries you can't remove.
What we need are tougher, longer lasting touchscreens. Those don't exist right now.
You need something tough if you plan on gigging with it.
Do you expect to find touchscreens on Marshall tube amps soon? I bet most would never buy one.

I've had some Behringer products and it's been cheap crap. They've proven to cut corners on products and are definitely the ones to throw in a semi-serviceable touchscreen. But how long will it last?
We should be grateful for the manufacturers who know better than to slap on a delicate touchscreen for an environment where it doesn't make sense.
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Apples and Bananas - Marshall tube amps with touch screen? How is that even relatable? Fractal make top tier DIGITAL equipment....that already has connectivity to touch screen devices.

(for the record - I also do not have an issue with cell phone batteries that can't be removed. It makes them more water resistant, and carrying a portable charger is no more/less effort than it would be to carry a spare battery with me)

Behringer X32 series mixers are a standard in the Pro-sumer world. If you really think they're cheap crap, then you simply haven't had experience or exposure to these products.....which also explains why you believe adding touch screens is 'coddling'. Get out and play with some touch screen devices...embrace it....it's inevitable, and it will be glorious.
 
Rex said:
Ever been buried in your phone and you wind up doing something you didn't intend? Maybe a wrong letter on the keyboard, or the wrong icon kicks off an app, or you find out you're adjusting the next control over instead of the one you thought you were adjusting? Or your hands are damp, and the screen is useless? Or something spills on it, and who knows what happens next?

Ever been mixing from out in the house with a tablet? Sometimes your finger fails to "grab" the screen and nothing happens — especially if there are calluses on your fingertips. Or your other hand grabs the tablet the wrong way, and now you're mixing Aux 7 instead of the mains. Or anything at all brushes the wrong part of the screen, and now you've muted the lead singer or bumped the kick by 15 dB.


I don't want any of that stuff to happen to me while I'm occupied with playing my guitar. Especially during a performance. Give me tactile controls I can trust. When the day comes that there's an installed base of touchscreens that have solved these problems, then I might reconsider. But not until.
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I mean, by definition - none of that stuff can happen when playing your guitar....because your hands are on your guitar.

Many of the units with touch screens offer 'lock screen', so that nothing accidental can happen (assuming it was a device that was on the floor to begin with).
The same 'bumping', can (and has) happened with knobs/buttons. I'm often trying to edit a preset and I hit the arrow-left (trying to navigate to a certain block)....and BOOM, I just flipped to a different preset.

I was SOOO reluctant to give up faders when I moved from my Yamaha 01V96 to the X32 Rack. Now, I would never turn back. I'm not saying I'd shy away from mixing with physical faders - but now that i'm 100% touch screen, I'm 100% comfortable with just that.
 
Dave Merrill said:
All those controls on a tiny device?
Buy a larger format ios or Android device just for this?
Probably not, for me.
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What I was not clear in saying is I would prefer to keep the cost down by offering a more basic touch-screen on the device (or any on-device touchscreen) and use a tablet or phone to edit. Bending over to edit a preset is not convenient at all, but mounting a tablet or phone on a mic-stand or just keeping it on my desk, would be a lot more desirable. Dropping $99 for an Android tablet dedicated for this purpose would be more desirable than $200-$300 increase in price for a single-use touch-screen... Just my 2¢ opinion.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Don't know him
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Isn’t he one of those <word forbidden by forum rules> in name only?

Now we’re entering the golden age, I saw with my own eyes one very important person saying this on YouTube, so it must be true! Which means we’re going to have multiple solutions each week. The likes of which the world has never seen!
 
vangrieg said:
Isn’t he one of those <word forbidden by forum rules> in name only?

Now we’re entering the golden age, I saw with my own eyes one very important person saying this on YouTube, so it must be true! Which means we’re going to have multiple solutions each week. The likes of which the world has never seen!
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I really don't know him, first heard of him in this thread. But i did like his apparent attitude towards much of traditional education.
 
BBN said:
I mean, by definition - none of that stuff can happen when playing your guitar....because your hands are on your guitar.
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If you gig, there are times when you have to make adjustments in the moment. Sometimes in the middle of the song. Sometimes you have the luxury of waiting until a break between songs. Either way, you have to get in and out quickly, and you can’t afford to have controls that are subject to inaccuracies or outright misses.

BBN said:
Many of the units with touch screens offer 'lock screen', so that nothing accidental can happen...
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That’s a workaround, not a fix. In the heat of the gig, I don’t want to have to turn the safety on and off to make an adjustment.

BBN said:
The same 'bumping', can (and has) happened with knobs/buttons.
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It’s not the same. If something brushes against a mute button on a real board, nothing will happen. But on a touch screen, a light touch has the same effect as a firm, intentional press. It makes a difference in a live situation where timing is important.

BBN said:
I was SOOO reluctant to give up faders when I moved from my Yamaha 01V96 to the X32 Rack.
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At one venue, i have a physical mixer in the sound booth and a tablet for roaming. The sound booth is in a bad location, so I have to take the tablet out into the house to really hear what the mix sounds like. But if I don’t have to have a fine ear on the mix, I’ll take the physical mixer every time. It’s far superior to the touch screen when it comes to precision, speed and repeatability.

Bonus for mixing: you can manipulate multiple controls at once. Maybe there’s dialog between multiple people, or multiple instruments trading licks back and forth. With a real mixer, you can have multiple fingers on multiple faders. Kinda looks like you’re playing a piano. It’s quick and effective once you’ve practiced with it a bit. But if you try to do it on a touch screen it will simply fail.
 
Dave Merrill said:
I really don't know him, first heard of him in this thread. But i did like his apparent attitude towards much of traditional education.
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A truly incredible person with a remarkable life story. Unfortunate that some of his commentary tends to upset a lot of people. IMO he should be a household name and taught in every school and university in this country. Please do take the time. He provides great food for thought, agree or disagree.
 
I’ve only just bought my Axe-Fx III and now I’m seeing all the fuss about the next generation 🙂 I know the Axe-Fx III is a hell of a beast, but I’d rather get the latest and greatest if it’s going to be the same price. Do you think it’s unwise to buy the Axe-Fx III now instead of waiting for the IV? And how long are we approximately talking before the next generation comes out?
 
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Rex said:
With a real mixer, you can have multiple fingers on multiple faders.
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You can do something with multiple fingers on a touchscreen as well, in theory at least. But you have to be looking at it all the time, there’s no muscle memory involved, and it sucks.
 
vangrieg said:
You can do something with multiple fingers on a touchscreen as well, in theory at least.
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Right. In theory. Show me one that actually lets me do that, and I’ll be one step closer to wanting a touchscreen on a Fractal device.

vangrieg said:
But you have to be looking at it all the time, there’s no muscle memory involved, and it sucks.
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+1. Reason #7 why I don’t want a touchscreen on my modeler. :)
 
YamenFahham said:
I’ve only just bought my Axe-Fx III and now I’m seeing all the fuss about the next generation 🙂 I know the Axe-Fx III is a hell of a beast, but I’d rather get the latest and greatest if it’s going to be the same price. Do you think it’s unwise to buy the Axe-Fx III now instead of waiting for the IV? And how long are we approximately talking before the next generation comes out?
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No.

Buy the III, enjoy the III. Make the decision for the IV (or whatever) when it comes out. Time will pass regardless, and Fractal stuff holds its value fairly well. Just get the thing you want now if you can afford it, and worry about the next thing when it arrives. It could be announced next month, or in 3 years. Nobody knows.
 
mr_fender said:
By what metric? My current phone is an ancient Samsung Galaxy S9. I've used it quite a bit texting, playing games, surfing the web, etc. every single day for about 7 years so far along with beating round in my pocket everywhere I've gone in that time, never with a screen protector on it. The touchscreen still works flawlessly. Gorilla glass is tough stuff. The phone I had before that one, also a Samsung, still had a perfectly fine touchscreen after several years of use as well when I swapped it for this phone. I've also had a couple of Samsung tablets for years with lots of use and zero touchscreen issues. It's always the batteries that crap out on such devices.

Modern touchscreen technology is more than up to the task. That said, I still prefer a good old knobs and buttons style UI on many devices.
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Google "Samsung Galaxy S9 broken touchscreen" and see how many have had a different experience. If those touchscreens were up to the task, there wouldn't be so many people complaining about a broken touchscreen. Glad you've had good luck though.
BBN said:
Apples and Bananas - Marshall tube amps with touch screen? How is that even relatable? Fractal make top tier DIGITAL equipment....that already has connectivity to touch screen devices.
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But, but... it's the FUTURE. :tearsofjoy:
BBN said:
(for the record - I also do not have an issue with cell phone batteries that can't be removed. It makes them more water resistant, and carrying a portable charger is no more/less effort than it would be to carry a spare battery with me)
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I have the same phone since 2016. Phone batteries last 2-3 years. I wouldn't have done it with a sealed in battery. BTW, don't count on that water resistance- it's not that great.
BBN said:
Behringer X32 series mixers are a standard in the Pro-sumer world. If you really think they're cheap crap, then you simply haven't had experience or exposure to these products.....which also explains why you believe adding touch screens is 'coddling'. Get out and play with some touch screen devices...embrace it....it's inevitable, and it will be glorious.
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Google "behringer touchscreen failure"
 
fuzzydude said:
Google "Samsung Galaxy S9 broken touchscreen" and see how many have had a different experience. If those touchscreens were up to the task, there wouldn't be so many people complaining about a broken touchscreen. Glad you've had good luck though.
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That's not a failure of the device, that's user error. Don't drop your phone or else get a good shock absorbing case for it. That's like driving your car into a telephone pole at 50 MPH and then saying it's not durable enough. Products are designed to withstand only so much abuse.

Do you think the screen of the Axe III or FM9 would fare any better if you dropped something heavy on it from a height with no protection? Touchscreen or not, if you abuse it either intentionally or accidentally, it will fail at some point.
 
mr_fender said:
That's not a failure of the device, that's user error. Don't drop your phone or else get a good shock absorbing case for it. That's like driving your car into a telephone pole at 50 MPH and then saying it's not durable enough. Products are designed to withstand only so much abuse.

Do you think the screen of the Axe III or FM9 would fare any better if you dropped something heavy on it from a height with no protection? Touchscreen or not, if you abuse it either intentionally or accidentally, it will fail at some point.
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And that's what any manufacturer will say when their touchscreen stops working. It's the excuse they use to not use a quality touchscreen.
I have a touchscreen on my car radio that stopped 6 years after new, and now I can't use some basic functions. Yet my other car, which is 12 years older, has knobs on its radio and still works perfectly. So a $30k car surely had a quality touchscreen right?
BTW, my Axe would last longer being dropped without a touchscreen than with any.
ZedHead made a good point though. Not everyone gigs their gear, so touchscreen maybe makes sense to them.
If those folks ever did make it out of the studio though, they might appreciate the robustness over whatever they gain from touchscreen.
 
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