What is the point of SPDIF if it's just going to be converted to USB anyway?

GlennO said:
SPDIF is not an alternative to USB. USB is used to connect digital gear to a computer. SPDIF is used to connect multiple digital devices together to form a single "virtual" digital device. SPDIF is better than analog for this purpose because the connection is digital and requires no conversion. The recording guide shows some use cases where SPDIF is useful.
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This makes sense!
 
Planta Fantasma said:
Not to mention AXE3 should definitely be using USB3 because USB2 is simply outdated
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Naw, there is no need for USB 3, just because it's not the newest protocol does mean it's outdated either. I rem a thread on this back when the AFXII was still the king and the III was announced. IIRC it was stated that it would just add additional cost that added nothing to the product.

For example, even if you used all 16 (8in x 8out) streams available on the Axe 3 at once (that's both recording and playback at the same time), you would just be scratching the available bandwidth, a quick google tells us that we should expect to run about 80 streams at this rate, which the only productions I've ever seen that even came close was symphony orchestras.

I used to operate a Behringer X32 and would record our band rehearsals and shows. 8 mics on drums, 3 vocals, guitar direct stereo, bass direct mono, 2 stage mics for ambience, (yea we ran in ears and had a monitor rig) in a 4 person band was 18 inputs total. Did this over USB to a cheap crappy refurbished celeron 386 windows xp machine with a 2 TB HDD I got for $50, perfect for the job.

Anyways... point is. USB 2 is sufficient and the industry standard, that is why.
 
iaresee said:
I don't think you know what's actually going on here. There's no "gets converted to USB" -- the USB port and the SPDIF port are all digital signals. There's no conversion going on moving between them.
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I actually do know. By "converted" I don't mean AD/DA. I mean the data stream has to be changed from the SPDIF format to USB, and then winds up going into the computer on a USB interface. In other words, you wind up talking to the computer on the USB line. I'm a converter applications engineer. I know precisely what happens here.
 
elvis said:
Any solution with SPDIF winds up going to a USB interface before it hits the computer. So why bother with SPDIF? Actually curious, not complaining.
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I can connect via SPDIF to other digital gear like processors (Eventide Eclipse) and interfaces (Avid OMNI), neither of which can receive audio over USB. Not sure why you say it necessarily "winds up going to a USB interface"?
 
I appreciate the comments!

Every time SPDIF comes up, it includes commentary about how it's better than USB. In my use-case, I only have the FM9 connected to my mac. So I've been trying to square that circle. It had not occurred to me that SPDIF might be for audio appliances to talk amongst themselves. This makes sense to me.

So why are people trying to use SPDIF to connect to PCs? Any advantage of timing or protocol goes away as soon as you move from SPDIF to USB in an interface. And this has nothing to do with AD/DA, as it stays digital. Or am I just misreading this?
 
Because USB is not always an option. Most DAWs don't support using more than one audio device at a time. Even with Macs you have to create an aggregate device, which can add additional latency.

If the Fractal device is your primary interface, USB is clearly a more flexible option. If you primarily use a different audio interface, SPDIF give you a way to connect to that interface with no added latency or analog conversions.
 
Good to know. I wish Windows would natively support aggregate devices. As is Windows audio doesn't really even support ASIO directly. Thankfully most DAWs use their own audio engine.
 
mr_fender said:
Good to know. I wish Windows would natively support aggregate devices. As is Windows audio doesn't really even support ASIO directly. Thankfully most DAWs use their own audio engine.
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I worked for a major publishing software company programming mac and windows desktop machines at a time when Apple’s evangelism team reached out to audio/visual/print/etc professionals and creatives and Microsoft couldn’t be bothered and actively sabotaged Mac products through neglect.

While I’m dubious about all of the major players these days, and have voiced hot takes about Apple’s devolution, I think the Windows platform bears the legacy of that early different focus.

@elvis, I hope it’s clear here that I got what you were saying about conversion. Ultimately complicated systems require the merging of disparate data, and the two machines one usb cable is very different than what some deal with daily.

Cheers all, Daniel
 
mr_fender said:
Good to know. I wish Windows would natively support aggregate devices.
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There are 3rd party solutions for windows, like VB Matrix, that merge audio devices. But, you're right...to be done properly, that needs to be at the OS level. So, while aggregates on MacOS don't add latency, 3rd party solutions on Windows do. OTOH, if you're monitoring direct while recording, latency doesn't matter anyway.
 
elvis said:
Any solution with SPDIF winds up going to a USB interface before it hits the computer. So why bother with SPDIF? Actually curious, not complaining.
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Just to clear a misconception here. I run protools HDX with a Mac Pro with a MTRX interface with AES inputs.
I also have a Live Digico mix board with AES inputs. I could choose to use these AES inputs to handle my guitars.
In both cases, especially not the live board, USB is absolutely not involved. And using the SPDIF or AES on the III transmits the digital signal without conversion. One less conversion means less latency.
 
Severed said:
Naw, there is no need for USB 3, just because it's not the newest protocol does mean it's outdated either. I rem a thread on this back when the AFXII was still the king and the III was announced. IIRC it was stated that it would just add additional cost that added nothing to the product.

For example, even if you used all 16 (8in x 8out) streams available on the Axe 3 at once (that's both recording and playback at the same time), you would just be scratching the available bandwidth, a quick google tells us that we should expect to run about 80 streams at this rate, which the only productions I've ever seen that even came close was symphony orchestras.

I used to operate a Behringer X32 and would record our band rehearsals and shows. 8 mics on drums, 3 vocals, guitar direct stereo, bass direct mono, 2 stage mics for ambience, (yea we ran in ears and had a monitor rig) in a 4 person band was 18 inputs total. Did this over USB to a cheap crappy refurbished celeron 386 windows xp machine with a 2 TB HDD I got for $50, perfect for the job.

Anyways... point is. USB 2 is sufficient and the industry standard, that is why.
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Touché!
Good info! I suppose I was projecting my wish for future models. I understand that USB2 can handle the signal flow & then some. I just simply love the extra bandwidth, headroom & multi-core processing that comes w/ new technology! I didn't think I'd ever push my i7 QuadCore Extreme to it's limits either, but w/ a few VST Instruments & some intensive reverb I'm pushing it against the wall.

There are plenty of us AXE3 users who have pushed our machines to the point of CPU overload. There will never be too much processing power or bandwidth when it comes to computing. I have zero interest in muscle cars, but I love having a ridiculously powerful computer system.
It's just my personal passion.

Cheers!
 
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Planta Fantasma said:
Touché!
Good info! I suppose I was projecting my wish for future models. I understand that USB2 can handle the signal flow & then some. I just simply love the extra bandwidth, headroom & multi-core processing that comes w/ new technology! I didn't think I'd ever push my i7 QuadCore Extreme to it's limits either, but w/ a few VST Instruments & some intensive reverb I'm pushing it against the wall.

There are plenty of us AXE3 users who have pushed our machines to the point of CPU overload. There will never be too much processing power or bandwidth when it comes to computing. I have zero interest in muscle cars, but I love having a ridiculously powerful computer system.
It's just my personal passion.

Cheers!
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It may be industry standard, but the standard still started with things other than audio in mind. Key thing is it works very well in the Fractal world…
 
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