What is the point of SPDIF if it's just going to be converted to USB anyway?

[elvis]

Any solution with SPDIF winds up going to a USB interface before it hits the computer. So why bother with SPDIF? Actually curious, not complaining.

 

[Brewce]

Cliff has expressed SPDIF is a lousy format, but I think this is from Matt...

MP, 11/2013: "Linking digitally via SPDIF you can create long chains with pre effects/amps in one unit and cabs/post fx in the other."

So it may have its use there...

 

[RoshRoslin]

If you go SPDIF into an interface like an apollo twin, it keeps the inputs free for other instruments etc. Also, prevents one more D/A conversion, if that's important to you.

 

[elvis]

I'm thinking of SPDIF vs. USB, not SPDIF vs. analog input. Once you're in the FM9, you can go to your computer directly with USB, or to an interface via SPDIF, get converted to USB, then to the computer. I don't think there is such a thing as SPDIF directly to computer. Even when a computer has a SPDIF port, it's my understanding that the port still likely converts to USB internally.

 

[mr_fender]

Many DAWs (and Windows) don't support using more than one interface at a time. Fractal devices also don't have dedicated mic preamps or phantom power. If your studio is centered around a different interface for those features, you may not be able to use USB for audio from the Fractal unit. SPDIF gives you a latency free connection to the other interface. It's limited since it's only 2 channels, but otherwise avoids a round of D/A and A/D conversions.

 

[weird guitar person]

@RoshRoslin has pretty much covered it, but I'll add my perspective... My 32 channel interface has S/PDIF connectors and transmits converted audio, ADAT connection data, and data from S/PDIF over 64 channels of MADI. Good to hear that USB is working well for folks, but there'd be no reason for some to take that route if they've got other digital options that don't carry the weight of primarily being for consumer computing. Ganging up multiple devices as aggregate devices on Mac generally adds a ton of latency and I avoid it whenever possible and where latency is relevant. It's not always relevant of course.

 

[weird guitar person]

Any solution with SPDIF winds up going to a USB interface before it hits the computer. So why bother with SPDIF? Actually curious, not complaining.

The first thing you said here isn't always true. Does it make more sense knowing that?

 

[Ocnor]

I'm thinking of SPDIF vs. USB, not SPDIF vs. analog input. Once you're in the FM9, you can go to your computer directly with USB, or to an interface via SPDIF, get converted to USB, then to the computer. I don't think there is such a thing as SPDIF directly to computer. Even when a computer has a SPDIF port, it's my understanding that the port still likely converts to USB internally.

What is this "converted to USB" thing that you are talking about? Once the signal is converted to digital it remains digital until it's converted back to analog.

 

[weird guitar person]

I don't think you know what's actually going on here. There's no "gets converted to USB" -- the USB port and the SPDIF port are all digital signals. There's no conversion going on moving between them.

The audio data doesn't get converted in the sense of A/D and D/A, but the protocol enveloping the data, stream vs. packets, etc., does.

 

[2112]

With the abundance of options available to players now, the answer to "why do people bother with x?" usually comes down to "they prefer it that way". What works for one person need not work for another.

 

[iaresee]

The audio data doesn't get converted in the sense of A/D and D/A, but the protocol enveloping the data, stream vs. packets, etc., does.

Eh. It doesn't make a difference. Sample rate, with Fractal gear, stays the same. The semantics of how the information is delivered here don't impact the sound.

 

[pauliusmm]

I use Spdif all the time when at home. It is one cable - resulting in stereo signal to UAD Apollo. Less AD -DA conversion, less cables, less inputs used.

 

[GlennO]

I'm thinking of SPDIF vs. USB, not SPDIF vs. analog input.

SPDIF is not an alternative to USB. USB is used to connect digital gear to a computer. SPDIF is used to connect multiple digital devices together to form a single "virtual" digital device. SPDIF is better than analog for this purpose because the connection is digital and requires no conversion. The recording guide shows some use cases where SPDIF is useful.

 

[weird guitar person]

Where this matters is if one introduces unnecessary routes in parallel and end up needing an aggregate device. The extra latency associated with doing so is evidence that the coordination of audio data in different formats can incur a penalty even when logically, it’s just more parallel audio data in the digital realm.

The closer to non-audio related operations a protocol is, the greater number of chances for issues to arise. S/PDIF is quite limited, but generally it either works or it doesn’t, plus or minus some amount of jitter. USB started out helping people connect printers. It’s evolving, and it works for a lot of things, but not my favorite to deal with.

If a person has a S/PDIF jack on their general use audio interface, that person can be happy that the Fractal devices support alternative digital outs and ins.

All that said, I like @2112’s response best.

 

[strabes]

Compared to using USB:

1. Fractal device doesn’t have to be on and/or require other gear like a mixer to use my monitors / headphones without repatching
2. Don’t have to change audio devices in my DAW or mess with aggregate devices when recording other sources
3. Can control my monitor mix using my interface’s software mixer with faders for my computer’s audio, click, SPDIF, etc, instead of balancing between the Out1 knob and the USB 1/2 level parameter buried on the setup page of the editor.
4. Intermittent latency issues when using fractal as an interface, though I think this has been fixed in the last USB firmware.
5. Don’t need to use input monitoring in my daw to hear the fractal because I’m never going to directly connect my monitors to the fractal’s outs.

 

[GlennO]

Ganging up multiple devices as aggregate devices on Mac generally adds a ton of latency

I would humbly disagree with what you've written there. The RTL of the aggregate is determined by the largest RTL device in the aggregate of course, but aggregation does not add latency.

Aggregate devices can be a good way to work with multiple audio devices since it avoids the 2 channel limitation of SPDIF. That means it's much simpler to do re-amping with an aggregate than SPDIF.

 

[weird guitar person]

I would humbly disagree with what you've written there. The RTL of the aggregate is determined by the largest RTL device in the aggregate of course, but aggregation does not add latency.

Aggregate devices can be a good way to work with multiple audio devices since it avoids the 2 channel limitation of SPDIF. That means it's much simpler to do re-amping with an aggregate than SPDIF.

Sure, and I’m speaking from personal experience with it in trying to incorporate USB exclusive gear in with my existing interface. I expect on my M1 Studio Ultra I might have a different experience with more recent equipment. It’s been awhile. A long while.

My S/PDIF ends at my interface where it joins I/O aplenty. And re-amping is less of a latency concern than with tracking. Certainly good use cases for aggregates exist of which re-amping is but one… I don’t leave things set to an aggregate as it adds too many uncertainties to my normal workflow.

Greatest round trip latency means an increase in latency from the perspective of my primary interface. So relatively speaking, I experience an increase in latency, every time there is an RTL imbalance. Lots of disclaimers around aggregates in DAWs, so…?

Did this whole thread arise around the gentleman with a grant to set up a studio?

 

[Javialtonaga]

I use an external interface with my Fractal via SPDIF. I can record my videos, do classes with a mic or plug other guitars and plugins simultaneously , and have more flexibility with this configuration. Only one cable from the Fractal and no color or input gain problems with the interface. Simple, good sounding, no headaches and a lot of options for routing.

 

[boyedav]

I use an external interface with my Fractal via SPDIF. I can record my videos, do classes with a mic or plug other guitars and plugins simultaneously , and have more flexibility with this configuration. Only one cable from the Fractal and no color or input gain problems with the interface. Simple, good sounding, no headaches and a lot of options for routing.

This is what I do too. It works great! I use USB just to run Axe-Edit, but otherwise everything is SPDIF direct to my interface.

 

[Planta Fantasma]

Any solution with SPDIF winds up going to a USB interface before it hits the computer. So why bother with SPDIF? Actually curious, not complaining.

I've never used USB out on my Fractal products other than Axe-Edit. I have another I/O interface for my studio. Not to mention AXE3 should definitely be using USB3 because USB2 is simply outdated. USB3 has been around for over 10 years & USBC is now the new norm.
I'm willing to bet that most problems people are having w/ USB2 recording would probably be eliminated since the new USB3/C platforms are so stable for I/O flow. I'll never understand why USB3 wasn't used since it's backwards compatible w/ previous USB versions.

I do however use the aes/ebu which is basically Spdif PRO. I use this output to send AXE3 signals out to my AXE2 so I can use it as a dedicated looper.