What is the most authentic way to use (Fender) spring reverb?

[Smittefar]

We know that the reverb block should come before the amp, but if I want to emulate the reverb knob on the front panel of say a VibroVerb, what would be the most authentic way?

A parallel path and then use "Input gain" (as below), or in-line and use the mix control?

 

[Piing]

Some like the to put the block in parallel, but I do not see any advantage. It will not make it more "authentic" or have any difference. I only see disadvantages, like extra CPU for the additional shunt, and additional work to make more connections, tweak more knobs to set the mix at 100% and set the desired FX level adjusting the Input Gain.

BTW: in your pic above you should set the Mix to 100% because you do not want to duplicate the dry signal (that will increase the level and create imbalances when you bypass the reverb block), you want 100% wet signal

 

[Smittefar]

You are completely right - Mix at 20% was a mistake I discovered after taking the screenshot.

My point is - A VibroVerb amp only has a single reverb knob. Which knob should I turn in which configuration for the most authentic experience?

I am not exactly sure how the reverbs in those amps are configured.
Is the reverb knob a 'send' volume to the reverb tank, and then the signal is mixed back at a fixed ratio, or is the reverb tank fed a constant signal level (depending on the amp input volume?), and the reverb knob on the amp controls how much of the signal is mixed back in with direct signal? I don't know, but as a spring reverb is not a linear device, it would make a difference, how it is done.

(If one wants to avoid the parallel chain, I think, the same could be achieved with the mix at 50% and then still using the input gain to control the amount of reverb)

 

[Smittefar]

Turns out, the reverb knob on fender amps is a mix knob

 

[Budda]

I always put reverb after the amp :/ lol

 

[Smittefar]

For authentic spring reverb action that is not authentic, but if you prefer it that way, it's right. I actually think, a spring reverb tends to sound ugly, but when it gets processed through the amp circuitry, it can sound really cool, and to me, it is an integral part of the fender clean tone (although, I'm not a big fan of the drip and wobble in the models)

 

[Jezzbro]

As far as I know the reverb in most fender amp, like a vibroverb, is traditionally not before the amp,
but somewhere between the preamp and phase inverter.
Only the 6G15 outboard reverb is before the amp. (and the Vibro King maybe a few more amps that have a reverb based on the 6G15)
Imho etc.

*Edit: and I love Drip and wobble in the models. But then again I like Surf and Spy movie guitar sounds.

 

[mr_fender]

Correct. On blackface amps, the spring reverb circuit is located between the 2nd gain stage of the Vibrato channel and the phase inverter. This is not possible in the Axe FX since we can't place effects between the preamp and power amp. You have to pick either in front of the amp block or after. In front, it will have more compression and color from the amp, better for wetter, surf style reverb, but if you push the amp into breakup, the reverb will breakup too and can get muddy when driven hard. Behind the amp block it will be a bit more "hi fi" sounding and clear. In front of the amp block is probably more authentic sounding since the preamp of non-master volume Fenders runs quite clean and you'd get the same compression and breakup on the reverb in the power amp section when the amp is pushed hard. The reverb knob on the amp controls how much of the wet reverb signal gets mixed in with the dry signal from the Vibrato channel, so the MIX control in the reverb block would accomplish basically the same thing. You'll typically need lower MIX settings with the reverb in front of the amp due to the compression from the amp.

One exception is the Vibro King. It actually has a version of the standalone tube reverb unit built in at the very input of the amp, so for that amp, the correct place is in front of the amp block.

No Fender amps prior to the Vibroverb in '63 had build in reverb. Earlier amps like the tweeds, blondes/brownfaces would have used a standalone reverb unit in front of the amp or they would have added external reverb at the console with a studio plate, spring, or real reverb chamber.

Also, when combining spring reverb and tremolo, make sure you put the tremolo after the spring reverb so the reverb tails get tremolo as well. Blackface Fenders had the tremolo dip the signal just before the phase inverter, except the Princeton Reverb which still used bias reverb in the power amp section.