What is the deal with FRFR cab makers?

[rcm78]

right. but I don't want wedge options. I want cab options. I want a 4x12 FRFR cab. I want something loud for when I'm at a small bar that only runs vox through the PA. Going by sweetwater, there aren't many big players in the FRFR cab space. (Yes, I know frfr is frfr)

Unless it's the look of a 4X12 you're after you can always stand a PA Wedge/Main on end. They are multi positional.

 

[Piing]

They are.
PA Wedges = FRFR. There is no difference.

Maybe 'looks' could be different. If you want it to look like a guitar backline.
But FRFR is not a guitar/modelling specific speaker.
These niche companies (like Atomic and XiTone) are just making powered PA wedges.
In fact - the Atomic CLR was originally designed to be a PA speaker (per Jay Mitchell, the designer).

If you're not finding enough FRFR/Wedge options, dig deeper. All of the pro audio manufactures are making them.
RCF, EV, Yamaha, Turbosound, FBT....they all have powered coax wedges. (it doesn't have to be coax, but it seems to be what guitar players gravitate towards when looking for FRFR).

Exactly. I do not understand the need to search for something labeled as "FRFR for guitar". Just go to a keyboard forum, and see what are their favorite stage monitors. Keyboard players have been using them ages before guitarists had modelers. And they are more demanding than us, since their instrument covers the full audio frequency range.

 

[JTI]

A 4x12 that's an "FRFR" cannot physically exist and be true to the acronym. There is a Mission Engineering turd that looks big 2x12ish, iirc.

 

[Rick]

On the issue of “PA speaker for FRFR,” it isn’t as simple as grabbing any PA speaker and you’re good. Some are very workable, and some sound tinny or tubby… and abysmally bad with a guitar modeler. Speakers specifically “guitar FRFR” haven’t been at all that way for me. This, of course, bears out that FRFR is more of a concept than a real thing. If they were all FRFR, they’d all work the same.

In the end, consider them full(ish) range and try them out for guitar. You’ll find the other FR to be more elusive and, frankly, less desirable. The response that suits your sound is what you want, and you’ll find it more challenging to match a good coaxial “guitar FRFR” with a generic PA speaker than you think. The only thing FRFR for Guitar tells you is the response is tailored for the guitar range, and those speakers are pretty much plug-and-play for guitar modelers. Beyond that, YMMV is my experience with PA speakers.

 

[lscottk]

Agreed. There’s no excuse for how it’s been. I’m hopeful it’s improving at Atomic, but the number of customers alienated more by being ghosted than the actual equipment failure is going to be a real stain on their reputation. Many washed their hands of it and won’t do business with these makers, and I can’t blame them a bit. I guess I’m a sucker for a good come from behind win, so I’m still playing my Atomic and RCF speakers. They sound wonderful, but I’d be lying if I said I’m not dreading future repairs. In this case, I sincerely hope they prove those fears to be unfounded.

The EV speaker has absorbed a lot of the business that slipped through Atomic’s hands, and they’ve so far taken care of their customers. Smart, good business there. Let’s hope more follow that example. Oh, and let’s also hope Meyer Sound calls me to be a beta tester for their monitors.

A man can dream, can’t he?

I sold my CLR because of the support issue. I waited for a response when I had a question for over 2 months. Once I got a response from Tom the service was great, but it took multiple email and a comment in a thread in the forum for Tom to get back to me. This was after Tom initially said he would get back to me in a couple of days. The CLR sounded great, but I'm not willing to wait for months for a response.

I purchased an EV PXM-12MP and it sounds great. EV is an established company that has provided great service for me in the past when I had a PL-20 (alternate version of a RE-20) refoamed. The PXM-12MP is small, light, loud, and transparent. And I'm confident that if I have a problem they will provide good service. What's not to like?

 

[rcm78]

On the issue of “PA speaker for FRFR,” it isn’t as simple as grabbing any PA speaker and you’re good. Some are very workable, and some sound tinny or tubby… and abysmally bad with a guitar modeler. Speakers specifically “guitar FRFR” haven’t been at all that way for me. This, of course, bears out that FRFR is more of a concept than a real thing. If they were all FRFR, they’d all work the same.

In the end, consider them full(ish) range and try them out for guitar. You’ll find the other FR to be more elusive and, frankly, less desirable. The response that suits your sound is what you want, and you’ll find it more challenging to match a good coaxial “guitar FRFR” with a generic PA speaker than you think. The only thing FRFR for Guitar tells you is the response is tailored for the guitar range, and those speakers are pretty much plug-and-play for guitar modelers. Beyond that, YMMV is my experience with PA speakers.

PA speakers are just like anything else that's built to a price point. If you're comparing Professional level speakers across brands you'll find minimal difference.

 

[BBN]

PA speakers are just like anything else that's built to a price point. If you're comparing Professional level speakers across brands you'll find minimal difference.

Totally agree - and I see FRFR/PA Speaker options like anything else. Buy high quality, get high quality results.
Cheap out because on paper it 'looks fine', and it's advertised as awesome....you will get crap results.
Doesn't matter if it's a Crate Amp or a Headrush FRFR - cheap products most often provide unsatisfactory results.

Buy a great FRFR/PA Speaker - you'll be happy.

 

[Johan Allard]

I wondered if size/weight might be an issue, and a reason you don’t see them all the time.

This was back in the Axe Fx 2 days. One of the issues was that the Axe Fx 2 is quite a bit longer than it needed to be (cooling considerations aside). There was even posts back then (and I contemplated following them) of someone that had made a short, lightweight chassis for the Axe Fx 2. Basically making the top, bottom and sides shorter and attaching the front and back panel to the new shorter chassis. You could probably have made the whole thing something like 100mm shorter, which would have made the speaker enclosure shorter and lighter. It was also wider than it needed to be (the speaker is not as wide as a 19" rack) and there was effectively like an empty hole to one side. Again adding weight to the enclosure that didn't add anything.

As an after market thing, I think it's always sort of doomed to be big and heavy. But if Fractal decided take the guts of an FM9 and place the panel on top, like how a Vox has it's panel on top, it seems it would be fairly easy to create something that wouldn't be much bigger than say a cube CLR in size, and then just add a FC6 or FC12. That would be an awesome combo rig.

 

[Rick]

This was back in the Axe Fx 2 days. One of the issues was that the Axe Fx 2 is quite a bit longer than it needed to be (cooling considerations aside). There was even posts back then (and I contemplated following them) of someone that had made a short, lightweight chassis for the Axe Fx 2. Basically making the top, bottom and sides shorter and attaching the front and back panel to the new shorter chassis. You could probably have made the whole thing something like 100mm shorter, which would have made the speaker enclosure shorter and lighter. It was also wider than it needed to be (the speaker is not as wide as a 19" rack) and there was effectively like an empty hole to one side. Again adding weight to the enclosure that didn't add anything.

As an after market thing, I think it's always sort of doomed to be big and heavy. But if Fractal decided take the guts of an FM9 and place the panel on top, like how a Vox has it's panel on top, it seems it would be fairly easy to create something that wouldn't be much bigger than say a cube CLR in size, and then just add a FC6 or FC12. That would be an awesome combo rig.

Yes, the more you think on it, adding an FC12 out front puts you right back to the same size as a FM9 and powered cab combination. The “floorboard” versions have essentially provided the benefit without a weight/size increase, so my switching from a III to the FM9 accomplished my goal without my noticing it.

 

[Johan Allard]

Yes, the more you think on it, adding an FC12 out front puts you right back to the same size as a FM9 and powered cab combination. The “floorboard” versions have essentially provided the benefit without a weight/size increase, so my switching from a III to the FM9 accomplished my goal without my noticing it.

Yep, exactly the same for me. I'm even now using the FM9 without a pedalboard which is the first for me. Simple and easy

 

[sumitagarwal]

I'm a total weirdo but I'm using a Marshall Woburn III and liking it

 

[slimefuzz]

echoing the legacy of rock ’n’ roll
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