What is "it" that the axe fx is missing?

F

fatoni

Inspired
I love this thing but I recently bought a mesa dc-5 (for $320 so I kinda had to). Now, I do use the axe fx through a pair of studio monitors and the last time I used a frfr 12" was ages ago but it still seemed different. Maybe its a looseness or maybe it is just volumes of air being pushed but I dont remember missing my mark iv as much as I'm enjoying this dc5. Either way I feel super lucky to have a mesa and an axe fx sitting in the same room...I am just curious.
 
Nothing is missing. Make sure it's setup well then run your Axe through a good power amp and cab. There's quite a bit of difference that way and its a much better comparison to having an actual amp in the room.

Amp in the room. Most beat to death (yet still relevant) phrase on here? Possibly. :)
 
that was my assumption. ive played through a power amp and cab and through a powered monitor. i guess it was just years ago. this new amp was the first time ive played a tube amp in six years or so. its just so different.
 
What is missing, is putting in some serious time with the Axe Fx. I'd put my rig up against any amp I or anyone else owns. With this new update there is nothing I can't achieve. That said, I have put in some serious time with my Axe with loads of testing and trial and error. I've tone matched my favorite sounds as well as impulse responses of my own cabs. It was not an easy road, but after two years, I'm the happiest I have ever been. Add in the latest firmware and it really becomes a winning combination. I say spend some time with the axe fx. Learn it, ask questions, dive in and enjoy it. Good luck.
 
it has nothing to do with the sound really. its that little bouncy feel you get. ive had an axe for like six years and cant see myself without it. i just missed having a tube amp and found one for a steal and just kinda noticed a little difference. im assuming its the studio monitors but i remember this being a bigger issue when frfr cabs seemed to suck and it was vers 5.xx on the ultra.
 
Comparing frfr to an actual speaker setup is literally comparing an amp in the room to a mic'd up cab. IRs reproduce a guitar tone colored by a microphone and recording chain where as your mesa is actually pushing air in front of you. Apples and oranges really
 
fatoni said:
it has nothing to do with the sound really. its that little bouncy feel you get. ive had an axe for like six years and cant see myself without it. i just missed having a tube amp and found one for a steal and just kinda noticed a little difference. im assuming its the studio monitors but i remember this being a bigger issue when frfr cabs seemed to suck and it was vers 5.xx on the ultra.
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I personally don't like the frfr cabs. I run 25 watt greenbacks with my axe fx live and use my own impulses in the studio. It feels as good as my tube amps for me. I'm telling you, spend some serious time with the axe fx and experiment. With the latest firmware, you should be able to dial in what you are looking for in 1-3 days tops.
 
I recently went from playing the axe fx II with studio monitors to playing through my VHT 2/50/2 and ENGL cab. The vibe in the room is completely different as you'd expect, and that is the main thing you'll be feeling.

For fun, i plugged in my 5150 the other day, waiting for that 'amazing tube sound' to come back. Guess what? I actually thought the tone was disgusting compared with what i'm used to from the axe now. It's probably the best investment i've ever made!
 
I prefer the Axe FX over the tube amps I hear on rehearsals and on my job. The one thing that was missing a couple of fw's ago, was a certain 3D quality that fills the room. Since the last fw, it's starting to get there. But as I've said, I prefer it as it is right now. I use it with real cabs, though I'd be interested in trying FRFR again.
 
I think the difference between FRFR and real cab is way overblown for practical considerations. Generally, the only people who ever hear a guitar amp direct are the guys in the band, and of those the only one who normally cares that much about the exact tone and feel is the guitar player.

Everybody else hears the amp through a microphone, which is going to be pretty much the same as FRFR.

So, when someone says, "There's something missing with FRFR", they are virtually the only person who will ever be able notice a difference. It's a bit of a deal if all you are doing is playing in your basement by yourself or jamming with friends without a PA, but the second a mic is stuck in front of the amp, the issue is pretty much moot.
 
StickMan said:
...Generally, the only people who ever hear a guitar amp direct are the guys in the band, and of those the only one who normally cares that much about the exact tone and feel is the guitar player.
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Doesn't that make up the majority of this forum's population?

Edit: Hm. Perhaps not. I suppose it may be mostly recording types, but guitar players (who don't necessarily record) must make up a significant portion of the folks here?
 
I'm not a fan of playing the Axe FX through typical studio monitors compared to larger options like the CLRs. But I come from many years playing vintage style amps and like a healthy volume when playing. If you're talking some large ($$) studio monitors in a well designed listening space, that might be a different story, but I don't have that option. I still have tube amps and enjoy using them as well. But the Axe can more than hang when you get it figured out for your situation(s).
 
fatoni said:
it has nothing to do with the sound really. its that little bouncy feel you get. ive had an axe for like six years and cant see myself without it.
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Sorry I missed that part if your post. 6 years is plenty of time to get great tone. I didn't realize the MKII was around that long. I thought maybe you might have an ultra. Still a great piece but nothing compared to what we have now in my opinion. If you aren't using the latest firmware for the mkII make sure you grab it. I'm having great results with power amp and cab emulation on while using a real cab.

i just missed having a tube amp and found one for a steal and just kinda noticed a little difference. im assuming its the studio monitors but i remember this being a bigger issue when frfr cabs seemed to suck and it was vers 5.xx on the ultra.
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I am seriously having a problem telling the difference with fw 2.04 with my XL+. I like my tube amps but don't miss them and don't notice anything that makes me yearn for them. I have plenty of bounce, dynamics, 12AX7 sound, and the new break up in the power amp that was added is just sweet.

I totally understand that sound and feel is subjective. But if you're not totally convinced after 6 years, whew, you have more patience than me. I've been at it for about 2 give or take a few months. I was totally convinced and done with my amps by fw 16.

When you say 6 years, have you really dug down deep and experimented? Not trying to upset you. I'm just thinking, maybe you had the axe and just played it and didn't totally sell your soul, put your wife and kids on hold and devote your life to it and live like a loner like the rest of us lol!

It's been a tough two years for me, but I'm happy I am where I am. All the other rigs I had took time too. Most of them more than 2 years...I was pretty happy with my axe after a few fw updates in all actuality....so it was more like 6 months to 1 year to reach happiness. :) Good luck.
 
I would love to have a "scratch pad" option in the amp block that opens advanced parameters in the amp list and be able to tweak tone stack parameters with a "build your own amp" type of configuration. Having the ability to choose split cathode vs shared cathode, mixer resistor values, cap values etc...and be able to save and name those modified amps in presets.

BUT...have something on the screen that tells you are playing a modified amp to differentiate between the stock amps.
 
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StickMan said:
I think the difference between FRFR and real cab is way overblown for practical considerations. Generally, the only people who ever hear a guitar amp direct are the guys in the band, and of those the only one who normally cares that much about the exact tone and feel is the guitar player.

Everybody else hears the amp through a microphone, which is going to be pretty much the same as FRFR.

So, when someone says, "There's something missing with FRFR", they are virtually the only person who will ever be able notice a difference. It's a bit of a deal if all you are doing is playing in your basement by yourself or jamming with friends without a PA, but the second a mic is stuck in front of the amp, the issue is pretty much moot.
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Hah hah, this is me. Not in a band and just got the AFXII for my own personal playing hobby. I now play through Studio Monitors and while it doesn't sound anything like playing through a 4x12 cab, it's sounds good enough and the range of tones you can get using IR's is a lot better(IMO), than being stuck with the one dimensional sound that you also get from playing through a real cab.
 
Power amp and cabinet. That's technically all that's "missing" if you want to play live.

It's not an issue if the primary role of the Axe FX is as a recording (and practice) amp. Which is how I use it.

One thing I did note recently, there must be something about the Axe FX that has made me clean up my playing. Maybe it's all the extra practice. I played through my tube amp and cab yesterday, got it to a... "healthy" :D volume and, before the cops showed up, I had a hell of a good time. Went to the Axe, cranked up my studio monitors to comparable levels, and had the exact same experience. The thing is as good as the real deal. Hell, it IS the real deal now.
 
Plus most guys that miss that cab tone have it hitting them in the knees, they aren't even getting their cab tone in the first place, they are getting that filtered off axis tone.
 
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