What hearing protection does Cliff and Co use?

[biggness]

I’d assume(or at least hope) that Cliff and company are using hearing protection when verifying and validating 1:1 tone samples with all these tube amps? I mean, a stock Mesa Recto preset comes dialed in around 4 or so on the master volume, which is certified to be ridiculously loud.

My question is, what hearing protection is being used? I’d love some input on such to help weigh my options for something for attending live shows at the very least. My wife and I hit up at least thirty or shows a year, and my regular ear plugs are killing the sound fidelity.

 

[Admin M@]

I use full on noise cancelling headphones at shows. Apple, Blue, Bose.
But then, I also get a wireless pack from FOH so I can listen to the show at the same time with my own volume control.

 

[iaresee]

I have custom molded hearing protection I got made at a local hearing institue place. They're Phonak brand. I think I paid $200. Worth every penny. Comfortable for hours and hours of wear. The noise reduction is more uniform across the spectrum than anything else I've ever tried off the shelf (though you still lose more high frequency than low because that's just how it works).

I was showing the band my Apple Watch readings from last night's gig and for stretches of time, in the corner where I and the other guitar player are, it was over 100 dB. My ears never knew and I'm not ringing today.

I wish I'd invested in proper, custom fit plugs decades ago. Oh well, best time to plant a tree and all that...

I'm still hoping we'll go IEM some day. But that's a real battle to make that change in the band.

Bonus: I use these plugs all the time in other applications now as well.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

My wife and I hit up at least thirty or shows a year, and my regular ear plugs are killing the sound fidelity.

I HATE how most ear plugs kill the fidelity, but I think it's another occurrence of Fletcher-Munsen jumping in there and screwing with us; Even with plugs that claim there's no loss of fidelity, simply reducing the sound level is going to change what our brain perceives.

With that in mind I searched for a couple years and eventually found that ASI Audio makes a really interesting IEM set that has mics in each ear that feed a little belt pack amplifier. We can adjust the volume of that amplifier, its built-in limiter, and the EQ. And, the adjustments can be set individually for either ear, or joined so the controls act on both at once. The pack can also take a feed from a regular IEM receiver and that can be blended into the ambient sound the built-in mics capture. They're expensive though, $799. I think they're a good product but definitely not in most people's budget. They fit into mine because of frustration and really wanting to take care of my hearing - I have multiple octaves of tinnitus firing into my head continuously and don't want more.

Because of the tinnitus I joined a hearing study that Apple is doing with some universities IIRC. The AirPods Pro 2 have noise canceling, and using that feature along with some other technologies built into the AirPods, they added a mode that makes them act like active ear plugs so they'll clamp down on transients. I've used them a couple times when playing and that part worked well. I wasn't thrilled with the frequency response I was hearing but haven't dug into them to see if I can set a custom response. Overall though I think they're worth investigating because they're half the cost of the ASI Audio unit. IMO, the only reason to spend the money for the ASI units is when someone needs to incorporate a FOH IEM feed. Apple's AirPod Pro over-the-ear headphones will do it too, and probably keep out more ambient sound, but they're up there in price with the ASI Audio unit.

 

[iaresee]

I HATE how most ear plugs kill the fidelity, but I think it's another occurrence of Fletcher-Munsen jumping in there and screwing with us; Even with plugs that claim there's no loss of fidelity, simply reducing the sound level is going to change what our brain perceives.

I've also assumed that low frequency content, with a far more visceral physical effect on your at high SPL, feels less rolled off becaus the bodily sensation of it isn't lowered by plugs.

I have nothing to base this on other than my own musings about it in my head as I drive to and from gigs.

 

[Rex]

I've also assumed that low frequency content, with a far more visceral physical effect on your at high SPL, feels less rolled off becaus the bodily sensation of it isn't lowered by plugs.

I have nothing to base this on other than my own musings about it in my head as I drive to and from gigs.

The physics of ear plugs guarantees that they'll attenuate the highs more than the lows. At low frequencies, the size of the plugs is a tiny fraction of a wavelength, and the earplugs are defenseless against them.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

At low frequencies, the size of the plugs is a tiny fraction of a wavelength, and the earplugs are defenseless against them.

Damn low frequency bullies picking on the poor defenseless earplugs.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I've also assumed that low frequency content, with a far more visceral physical effect on your at high SPL, feels less rolled off becaus the bodily sensation of it isn't lowered by plugs.

I have nothing to base this on other than my own musings about it in my head as I drive to and from gigs.

I think it's a reasonable musing conclusion.

 

[Budda]

I’d assume(or at least hope) that Cliff and company are using hearing protection when verifying and validating 1:1 tone samples with all these tube amps? I mean, a stock Mesa Recto preset comes dialed in around 4 or so on the master volume, which is certified to be ridiculously loud.

My question is, what hearing protection is being used? I’d love some input on such to help weigh my options for something for attending live shows at the very least. My wife and I hit up at least thirty or shows a year, and my regular ear plugs are killing the sound fidelity.

This one’s easy - molded earplugs, -25dB attenuation.

 

[randocaster]

 

[Rex]

Damn low frequency bullies picking on the poor defenseless earplugs.

Oh but that bass! Dr. Dre all day.

 

[Promit]

I've been using the Soundbrenner Minuendo volume-adjustable earplugs for live shows: https://www.soundbrenner.com/products/minuendo-earplugs
They're ... interesting. From their site:

Minuendo earplugs feature a unique membrane designed for a "second eardrum" effect, providing critical flat frequency response. This design allows for natural, lossless sound quality, making them ideal for musicians and live music fans.

Maybe they're more balanced than other "musician" ear plugs, though it still feels like the highs are overly pulled back. Depending on the show, I sometimes back them out of my ears a bit to admit a bit more than their loudest setting. The difference between the settings also isn't huge, but at the occasional really loud show it's nice that I can ask for a little more attenuation.

 

[Stratoblaster]

I bought custom formed musician earplugs early in the 1990's and it was one of the best investments I've ever made.

They go with me to every show and I like how they only take effect at 100dB and sound very natural. They're very comfortable and I've never had any issue wearing them for an extended period of time.

I remember going to see Motorhead in a mid-sized club and they paid for themselves right then and there....

 

[biggness]

I bought custom formed musician earplugs early in the 1990's and it was one of the best investments I've ever made.

They go with me to every show and I like how they only take effect at 100dB and sound very natural. They're very comfortable and I've never had any issue wearing them for an extended period of time.

I remember going to see Motorhead in a mid-sized club and they paid for themselves right then and there....

One could only imagine with Motörhead lol

I’m going to see Cannibal Corpse and Meshuggah soon, so definitely need something sorted out before then.

 

[Cooper Carter]

I highly recommend custom-molded ear plugs for anyone who plays or enjoys lives music.

FWIW, I have the Sensaphonics, and I go back & forth swapping the -25 and -15dB filters, depending on the environment / situation. They are comfortable and quite frequency transparent.

I believe that protecting your hearing while enjoying great sounding shows is well worth the $200 + a trip to the audiologist for mold impressions.

YMMV.

So, my current favorite generic (i.e. not custom molded) plugs are Earasers. They're much more affordable and for only $50, they do an impressive enough job delivering "flat response transparency."

I wear them every day on the floor at NAMM () and have given many pairs of these as gifts. For generics, they're flat enough that you can occasionally catch yourself forgetting you have them in -- until you take them out and everything is significantly louder and a bit crispier. Definitely not the complete high-end buzzkill of most generic plugs.

I use full on noise cancelling headphones at shows. Apple, Blue, Bose.
But then, I also get a wireless pack from FOH so I can listen to the show at the same time with my own volume control.

I never leave for a studio session or show without my IEMs. I'll even use them off and on in my home studio when I'm working on sounds at gig volume. Show-wise, if there's an extra/guest pack, fantastic. If not, I can always use the IEMs (again, Sensaphonics ) sans cable as plugs, though obviously that leads to serious fidelity loss. For that reason, I do my best to keep a pair of either molded or generic plugs in my IEM case.

My $0.02.

(I should note, while I do officially endorse Sensaphonics, I am not paid either by them or by Earasers. I use the gear I use if and because it's what I like to use, period.)

 

[SpudMan]

I HATE how most ear plugs kill the fidelity, but I think it's another occurrence of Fletcher-Munsen jumping in there and screwing with us; Even with plugs that claim there's no loss of fidelity, simply reducing the sound level is going to change what our brain perceives.

With that in mind I searched for a couple years and eventually found that ASI Audio makes a really interesting IEM set that has mics in each ear that feed a little belt pack amplifier. We can adjust the volume of that amplifier, its built-in limiter, and the EQ. And, the adjustments can be set individually for either ear, or joined so the controls act on both at once. The pack can also take a feed from a regular IEM receiver and that can be blended into the ambient sound the built-in mics capture. They're expensive though, $799. I think they're a good product but definitely not in most people's budget. They fit into mine because of frustration and really wanting to take care of my hearing - I have multiple octaves of tinnitus firing into my head continuously and don't want more.

Because of the tinnitus I joined a hearing study that Apple is doing with some universities IIRC. The AirPods Pro 2 have noise canceling, and using that feature along with some other technologies built into the AirPods, they added a mode that makes them act like active ear plugs so they'll clamp down on transients. I've used them a couple times when playing and that part worked well. I wasn't thrilled with the frequency response I was hearing but haven't dug into them to see if I can set a custom response. Overall though I think they're worth investigating because they're half the cost of the ASI Audio unit. IMO, the only reason to spend the money for the ASI units is when someone needs to incorporate a FOH IEM feed. Apple's AirPod Pro over-the-ear headphones will do it too, and probably keep out more ambient sound, but they're up there in price with the ASI Audio unit.

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but I am interested in what you are saying here and wondering if it can be applied to my situation.

I don't gig out, just play at home in my basement. I also have bad tinnitus like you. Multiple frequencies at the same time, sometimes worse than other times, but persistent. I like to play with a not insignificant volume as for me it is needed to get the tone I am looking for. I am concerned about the impact of this moderately loud volume on my hearing and tinnitus. It isn't multiple 4 speaker stack, multiple 100w Marshall heads lout, but still loud.

My question is whether the ASI Audio IEM's would work as follows: Could I have my FM3 and guitar adjusted for louder volumes, but not turn on an external speaker like my studio monitors, or my EVPXM12-MP FRFR, and have the sound coming through the IEM's only? In this way I could be producing the volume needed for the tone I am seeking in terms of setting parameters, but I could adjust the level of sound impacting my ears.

Or could I just still allow the sound to come from the external speakers, but use the IEM's to lower the amount of db's impacting me ears? I am guessing yes, but using the IEM's without turning on the speakers would be nice as it would spare my wife having to hear the loud sound.

Not sure if this makes no sense at all, if not, apologies for the dumb question.