What do people mean when they say modelers "lack the amp feel"?

I wouldn’t say it is indistinguishable when played back after being recorded. But the difference isn’t the same as in the room playing and hearing a tube amp. Recorded I can hear a difference but unless O hears the recorded tube amp and the recorded axe first individually to learn the tone finger print I won’t know which is which. Just hear a slight diff. If I learn the individual tones first I can usually pick them out. Ina room though the way the amp works with you sometimes fights back and the way the tube amp just fills the room I still haven’t gotten with my axe. I have not tried playing through my guitar cabs and a power amp yet. Just headphones mostly. Which is probably a big influence.
 
axes said:
How does this have anything to do with tube tone?
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Tube amplifiers were made with no master volume for a good time.

To get a high gain sound on plexis, like the brown sound, EVH had to turn every knob on those things to 10.
 
People listen with their eyes that’s what’s happening. I love tube amps, love fractal even more, but I’m in the camp thinking even solid state amps have been dismissed prematurely due to “lobbying”! I’ve heard some SS amps you’d swear were running with glowing tubes inside. I guess tubes make a difference only when output section runs hot, I still think all else the same (same quality components), SS is just as good as a tube amp that relies on preamp distortion only.
 
I´m perfectly happy with my AxeFx with FRFR-Box (Bueamps Cubo). So I own a few hundreds Tubeamps.

But I think this is true:
1. A lot of Tubeamps are comparatively easy. You put it on, and the sound is there. A modeller like the AxeFx could a rabbit hole. It is for beginners not so easy to have the "perfect" sound. Sometimes too much possibilitys. It takes time. Especially the search for the right IR can be frustrating.
And you can easily use too much effects.
2. I found it a long time hard to find that "tube compression feeling" in modellers. Hard to explain. And for me it was not easy too find the right use of compressors. It took me a lot time. And the modelling is now so unbelievable good.
3. Some people (like me) play a lot over headphones. And the search for the right headphones can be frustrating, expensive and long. This has a lot to do with that compression you get when playing loud over a "real" amp. (And I think, a lot of people didn´t use the room-parameters in the cab-block. I could´not live without them when recording ore playing over headphone.)
4. A lot of people want to play their modelling-unit over FRFR or good monitors. And there could be in my opinion a BIG difference betwenn these and a normal amp-cab if you are used to Tubeamps. The search for the right FRFR could also be long and expensive.
5. It´s easy to say: "I miss the feeling of my tube-amp" when you play even a good modeller for just an hour or so. Could be impossible to get the sound and the feeling of your 3000 bucks - tube amp at home or on stage in in a quick test without the right headphones, monitors or FRFR.
 
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Have had my FM9 for a couple of years now, really love it. Still have some amps in the room as well, still use those, something about cranking those up (when no one is home). As I have gotten older, I don't miss lugging those amps around. I don't think anyone notices in the audience, still need a good sound person, whether they are mic'ing an amp or mixing your modeler. Not sure I would say it's about "amp feel", just a different experience for me, not better or worse. I do use the FM9 a lot more than the amps, it's really convenient to virtually add/subtract/modify virtual pedals, mics, speakers, etc., and with speakers for the FM9, I can still crank up the volume when no one is home for fun.
 
Hamsworld said:
2. I found it a long time hard to find that "tube compression feeling" in modellers. Hard to explain. And for me it was not easy too find the right use of compressors. It took me a lot time. And the modelling is now so unbelievable good.
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Can you please elaborate on this with the Axe?
 
oacikgoz said:
People listen with their eyes that’s what’s happening. I love tube amps, love fractal even more, but I’m in the camp thinking even solid state amps have been dismissed prematurely due to “lobbying”! I’ve heard some SS amps you’d swear were running with glowing tubes inside. I guess tubes make a difference only when output section runs hot, I still think all else the same (same quality components), SS is just as good as a tube amp that relies on preamp distortion only.
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Unfortunately not at all. I've tried a couple of SS PAs with the Axe and every time the Fryette LXII just beat them out of the water no matter the volume.
 
axes said:
Unfortunately not at all. I've tried a couple of SS PAs with the Axe and every time the Fryette LXII just beat them out of the water no matter the volume.
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I hear what you’re saying but what I’m stating is something else. Often, tube amps just have better components, SS amps don’t get the same love and attention. Those better compoents make a hell lot of difference. I’m talking about a simple case of swapping tubes with transistors all else the same.
 
oacikgoz said:
I hear what you’re saying but what I’m stating is something else. Often, tube amps just have better components, SS amps don’t get the same love and attention. Those better compoents make a hell lot of difference. I’m talking about a simple case of swapping tubes with transistors all else the same.
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If this was true then there would be transistor amps with very similar tones to tube amps. There aren't any, sadly. There are great transistor amps like the Roland JC120 but definitely not tube tone.
 
touch33 said:
Haven’t read the entire thread — but it usually means they’ve never played an AFX3 w/FW26…
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To be fair, Fractal never advertised the Axe as a device that sounds like a tube amp. The Axe is a modeler which it does a great job with but it's never claimed anywhere that it's supposed to exactly sound like a tube amp would in the same situation. I think I'm much happier since I've accepted that my Axe will never replace my tube amps and that's just great - I'm not looking to get the same out of any of them anymore.
 
axes said:
To be fair, Fractal never advertised the Axe as a device that sounds like a tube amp
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Not advertised as sounding like a tube amp, but, afaik, is advertised as sounding like a mic'd tube amp+cab (works as advertised imo).
 
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