What controller would you choose if you were me?

Danny Danzi

Power User
Hi everyone,

I've been really reading a lot about the AxeFxII, controllers, scenes etc over the past few days and figured I'd just ask your advice (as well as a few questions within my comments) on what controller you'd go with if you were me. Before you give me your answer though, allow me to tell you what I need to be able to do.

1. The most important for me is to have gapless program changes with spill-over. I've been using a Digitech 2101 since 1994 and in my opinion, have created some pretty insane tones with it. I'd still be using it live but it's been harder and harder to find parts/buy old units and I'm just sick of dealing with 1994-96 technology. But one of the most incredible things about the 2101, is the gapless program changes as well as the spill-over.

Now, I know AxeFxII can do this, but it depends on scenes or something if I read correctly? (I'm supposed to get my AxeFxII on Tuesday if my tracking info is correct) One of my friends told me he can switch through patches without patch glitches and he doesn't use scenes. I thought I read or saw a video that said "you must use scenes for instant program changes" is this correct?

2. Patch use using 10 presets: I don't need anything elaborate here. What I like to do with my patches is, I create a tone with a light room verb. Once done, I duplicate the sound several times and add different things to the sound. It's probably dumb to do this (and I will be open to changing my methods, I just wanted you to know what I do) but I've been doing it this way for a long time.

An example of this would be: Create dirty rhythm patch for patch 1. The patch just has the core sound going on with light room verb, eq, compression. Duplicate/copy the patch to patch 2. On this one, the same sound is used but I may use a HAAS delay at 100% wet with two different delay times. Copy and paste the same sound to bank 3. Kill the delay, lower the highs on the eq, maybe increase mids slightly and use a bigger reverb, increase gain a bit, raise output as this is a lead sound.

Create a totally clean sound for patch 4 that is not a copy of anything I've done above.

Copy patch 3 to patch 5. Lower the verb a bit and add a ping pong delay as this will also be a lead sound.

Copy patch 1 to patch 6. This will be a rhythm sound where I add a chorus that is pretty rich. And so on....you get the idea.

So for the way I'd be using my AxeFxII, what midi pedal would you think would be good for me? I would preferably like to use a pedal that doesn't need to be plugged in to any AC power. That's another great thing about my Digitech control 1....a simple midi cord runs the pedal with no additional AC power needed. I'd really love to keep that sort of set-up and would be willing to add a midi cable to the pedal if needed, but am really NOT wanting additional power to the pedalboard if there is something out there like that.

Based on the above, what would you recommend? Also, though I'm not *totally* against the MFC, with all due respect I do think the price is pretty steep. If you have reasons to sell me on the MFC or tell me how I might be able to work my methods in while using it or another pedal, I am not too set in my ways to listen to you. I really do need your advice and will appreciate anything you may have to offer.

**A side note if I may?** One other thing...I got put in a bad position 2 weeks ago at a gig. I play really nice rooms and outdoor festivals (I play in a VH tribute band) and my rig completely died on me at a show. Thankfully we played at a casino that night that had a rig I could use. I never want this to happen again, so I've built another little back-up rig. I'd like the pedal I choose for my AxeFxII rig to be used for this also. The back-up rig will be (don't laugh, but honest this thing sounds incredibly authentic!) an old Rocktron Chameleon into a Quadraverb. I just want to be able to play and have a few cool sounds in case my rig dies. This fits perfectly in a little Gator 4 space rack. So if you have any advice on this too, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance! :)
 
Check out the Gordius LG2. It can be powered through the midi cable if you attach its AC adapter to the Axe. Someone on The Gear Page is selling one for a very reasonable price (not me or any affiliation to me). It seems to be able to work with just about anything that can be controlled by midi.
 
The best choice for the Axe-Fx II is the MFC-101. Especially given your wish for perfect gapless changes and spillover, you'll need scenes, and no other controller offers better, easier scenes support. One limitation however, is that you get only EIGHT scenes per preset, not ten.

You COULD do eight scene presets -- and more -- with another controller, but I haven't found one that does all I'd want it to do.

PS: My backup rig is a Macbook Pro.
 
I've programmed my Line 6 HD500 to work as my midi controller for Axe FX. Here is how i've done it:
-Footswich 1-4 to change patches
-Footswitch 5-8 change scenes
-Bank switch up and down
-Tap tempo for delays etc.
-Expression pedal for Wahs, whammy etc.

It works great for backup gear at gigs the same time. It's half the price of MFC-101.
With HD500 i can control the first 62 patches from Axe FX. That's enough for me.

I'd say this is the next best midi controller after MFC-101 for Axe FX.
 
Certainty, Gordius LG2 is recognized pedalboard most complete ever and I mean the features you can get for midi manage any machine as Axefx, Kemper or more. It's a pedalboard widely used in Europe (is built in Belgium) and is not specific to one or other machine but for any. If you tell the site of Gordius and his forum will understand the leap and possibilities than any other similar products (without taking anything away from MFC1 of FAS that is designed to ok for Axefx but it is certainly more limited in functions). With my LGX2 I can control perfectly Axefx2 and Eventide Eclipse at the same time, with 8 switches for scene, 5 switches for preset, 13 switches for effects and 5 switches for looper (and many other). It's ok with Mac or Win.
 
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Happy Gordius user here, too, but I'll give a general advice:

1) Sit down, think deeply about how you're going to setup patches, controllers/scenes etc. and write it down on paper. Having an outlined plan helps immensely.

2) Download the manuals of the midi controllers in question and read through carefully, to get a glimpse of the features and how functions are implemented. Even better, if available: download the editor software to get some first hand experience how programming works on the given unit.

3) Compare the results of 1) & 2). Perhaps it even sparks new ideas how to construct your setup.

In the end, it's all about what fits your needs/preferences better.
 
Liquid Foot is up with Gordius.

They seem really nice but has anyone actually been able to buy one in the last few months? I am moving now to an MFC but I had my LG2 in my hands two days after ordering it. From Belgium no less!
 
RJM Mastermind GT. I had a MFC 101 for years. Had issues with a sticky footswitch and the buttons were pretty loud when clicking. My MMGT has nearly silent switches and you can customize to your heart's content. Any switch can be a preset, IA, momentary, etc.

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Yes the MFC is expensive, but worth it. Now, since you said you'd like to control other gear, etc, I'd say Liquid Foot. It is complicated at first to understand how the purpose of any button can perform any midi funtion you need, and even with just a small JR pedal with only 8 buttons, you can page flip to have access to many buttons of 8, on the fly.

The Gordius and the RJM stuff is going to be more expensive than the MFC, if I'm not mistaken.

With the LF, you can program for your primary rig, and an alternate program for your backup rig. Same songs, and effect changes (within the constraints of your backup rig's capabilities of course).

if the primary rig goes down, you can bounce the set list for the backup rig and complete your mission. However, the modern MIDI controllers we are all talking about are mini-computers, and I'd be more worried about one of those failing at a gig, (due to beer spillage) than the rack mounted stuff. At this point, if any of my rack gear failed (even the mighty Axe II), I'd be able to limp through the set. however, if I lost midi control of the entire rig, I'd be screwed. My controller is high quality, but it represents my largest vulnerability/liability if it were to fail on stage.

In light of the sheer cost, and in light of the fact that an HD500 can also generate effects tone itself, that might be the best option for you at the moment. Now, you only have to bring your rack with the Axe II and the HD500. If the Axe fails, switch your cables over and you are in business. I'd work hard at making the signal levels at least comparible so the sound man is not dealing with a huge change in signal in the middle of a set.
 
No it isn't.
Almost no limit on presets, songs and so on because of it's dynamic memory.

Yup.
And - IMO even more important: I have never ever (ever ever) heard a single bad word about Gordius' (i.e. Xavier's) customer service. He always responds, always tries to help and goes the extra mile. Hell, even if you're not a customer you can expect replies on a weekend!
 
Same with Ron at RJM. Always willing to help! His forum is also very good and he monitors it frequently to do upgrades. BTW, not bad-mouthing the the MFC. I used it and dug it. Very compatible. MMGT took me an afternoon to set-up. I actually have it programmed by banks for 3 different set-ups. AXE FX 2 into FOH stand-alone with amp/cab sims, Run into my Bogner Goldfinger 45 FX loop as effects only along with my pedal board effects, and finally using the MMGT with the AXE FX2 for all effects along with the RJM AMP GIZMO to change amp channels along with AXE FX presets (no amp/cab sims) Pretty sweet!
 
... would buy GORDIUS Big Little Giant !
i did not know that they exist before i bought the MFC.
Whats better:
1. Software to create Patches, Presets and Banks
2. Amazing OLED Display (Works also in Sun Light)
3. Multifunctional Silent Switches (no Click & Clack in quiet Songs) and best you can switch without shoes! Also switch with your Hand easy.
4. use the GORDIUS Big Little Giant as a Keyboard to play Synth or Bass same time with Axe :)
5. Tuner Looper and all other specials from Axe are working fine
... so much more:)
if your main rig break you can use the GORDIUS Big Little Giant as a controller for your backup rig easily example use MainStage on Mac and switch there all effects with it...
Also if you use the GSP 2101 like me you can easy control that unit too....
Man i'm a real fan of the GSP ... i also bought it in 96'... it changed my Music Life!
and how i liked how long you could fade out the Delay from the first Preset while you play a other Preset with total different Sound
it is this little extra that no other unit had that time...

but after a half Year with the Axe... i would not go back...
and now with FW 11 the Unit blast everything away serious!

I will get my GORDIUS Big Little Giant soon ... some of my friends use this now long time for Git. & Key
 
Thanks for the replies everyone! So sorry I've not gotten back here sooner. That Liquid thing looks VERY cool. The thing I'm not digging though....I'd have to run external power to the board. The MFC would stop that from happening. I thought of just using my old faithful Bradshaw, but I really don't want that big thing on the stage with me for the smaller shows I've been doing. It looks to be as big as the Liquid Pro.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4909348/GoliathPedalboard.jpg

That dinosaur works like a charm. But it's a bit too big. It sort of sucks to spend the money on something else due to size, but less is more these days for my cover band. I can fit all my gear in my Vette right now and I'm trying to keep it that way. LOL!

I do love how that Liquid has all the lights/colors on the switches. That really is cool. The 12 looks like a perfect choice. Then again, for $49 more, I could get the MFC and get the one that's made for this. Uggh....don't ya hate decisions like this?! Thanks so much again for your help and input everyone.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone! So sorry I've not gotten back here sooner. That Liquid thing looks VERY cool. The thing I'm not digging though....I'd have to run external power to the board. The MFC would stop that from happening. I thought of just using my old faithful Bradshaw, but I really don't want that big thing on the stage with me for the smaller shows I've been doing. It looks to be as big as the Liquid Pro.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4909348/GoliathPedalboard.jpg

That dinosaur works like a charm. But it's a bit too big. It sort of sucks to spend the money on something else due to size, but less is more these days for my cover band. I can fit all my gear in my Vette right now and I'm trying to keep it that way. LOL!

I do love how that Liquid has all the lights/colors on the switches. That really is cool. The 12 looks like a perfect choice. Then again, for $49 more, I could get the MFC and get the one that's made for this. Uggh....don't ya hate decisions like this?! Thanks so much again for your help and input everyone.

LF is deeper, MFC is easier, though LF has a good editor which helps. You can power LF off midi, but I think there's a mod you need to make in the Axe to accommodate the amount of power the LF adaptor puts out. I didn't read whole thread, so sorry if this is repeat info.
 
... all about Gordius & Axe FX: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/other-midi-controllers/25357-how-gordius-littlegiant-axe-fx-work-together.html

btw. you can power all Gordius over 7 Pin Midi... so like the MFC...

So it can be powered with a 7 pin eh? Thanks MM. That's one of my big things. I'm really trying to not get a controller than needs additional AC power. I so hate extension cords and anything else. I have a little snake that I made that has two cables in it. It's nice and tight....and I don't need any power from the side of the stage. Most times in these little bar gigs, you don't even get side stage power. So I definitely need a controller that doesn't need power from the stage that doesn't force me to use a junction box or an extension cord. My Bradshaw works really well with this. I may just make room in my little 6 space rack for it. I just hate like heck to bring that big thing with me. Then again, why spend if you don't have to. :) We'll see. Thanks.
 
Danny - the MFC has the best 'fit' with the Axe due to the MIDI sysex
but you will need additional expression pedals [XP]..
I use the Bass FV-500L

I also use additional external switches [XS] - the Boss FS-6
the reason I use this is because I like the switches to be low to the ground [I like my heel on the ground when stomping on switches whilst I'm playing], be a big target to stomp on, and also to have a very short 'throw' when switching..

I came from a Digitech 2120 so I am familiar with the seamless preset switching..
the Axe won't quite do this... but there is a very very cool way around it...
make all your tones within a single preset..

I use the MFC to change presets [between songs] and my XS / XP's to change the tone type / control the tone in real-time
alternatively, you can use the MFC for everything...
after changing preset, hit the reveal switch, and all the switches on the MFC become IA switches... this is a very powerful feature

example..
I have a riffing and soloing tone within a single preset
this preset serve 80% of the songs I play..
when I switch from riff to solo, I do it via modifiers
riff tone:
amp1 - left 5153Red
amp2 - right VH4ch4

I hit the switch on the FS-6 that I use to switch between riff mode and solo mode and the following happens:
amp1 pans centre
amp2 mutes
a vol block provides a big level boost [for more gain]
a delay un-bypasses
a pitch-shifter [used for very very gentle stereo chorusing] un-bypasses
the reverb in-put gain increases [to strengthen the reverb]

this system is immediate and the tone transitions are flawless...

so what about my of 20% of songs that this preset cannot address??
I make a copy of this basic preset and make changes to it..
so I have a few presets for certain 'song types' and a couple of presets for a specific song...

the very cool part is keeping them all consistent...
use global blocks for specific fx-blocks [especially the amps]..
so when you tweak one, you're tweaking them all simultaneously..
 
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