Well it happened...(FM9T v amp moment)

chillybilly

chillybilly

Member
I admit that cryptic elliptical posts that require clicking into the thread tend to annoy me so apologies for relying on same.

I also understand that testimonials re: Fractal gear vs traditional amps/pedals in the Fractal forum are like telling people how good chocolate cake is. Somewhat superfluous.

Anyway...after a recently busy schedule of rehearsals, blue-sky sessions trying to get ideas for songs and gigs with the FM9T, I had an idle evening and occasion to get the traditional pedalboard and the tube amp out for a bit of a woodshed and, frankly, to remember what such a rig sounded like after so long.

After I did the octopus routine connecting power cables, patch cables, speaker cables, attenuator and finally plugged the guitar in I was...what? Underwhelmed? Surprised? A bit angry? The tube rig didn't sound appreciably better and in many respects sounded worse or at least less consistent.

'To hell with this,' I said and put it all away after about 5-10 min. I switched on the FM9T that was already connected to an FRFR, moved the guitar cable (actually a wireless receiver) over and off I went without an ounce of regret or guilt that I was compromising or 'cheating.'
 
I agree. I still have my tube amps, but wouldn't consider gigging them now that I've been using the FM9. I do like to A/B the FM9 with my amps at home, and have spent MANY hours doing that. Interestingly, I have spent as much time trying to get my amps to sound as good as the FM9 as I have trying to get the FM9 to sound more like the amps. It's been an arms race that taught me a LOT about both, and made both platforms sound much better to me.

I have set up my amps such that they are always wired up and ready to go. Otherwise I'd never use them. I have the amp switching (channel switching AND switching between different amps) controlled by the FM9 so I can A/B in real-time.

Rock on!

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chillybilly said:
I admit that cryptic elliptical posts that require clicking into the thread tend to annoy me so apologies for relying on same.

I also understand that testimonials re: Fractal gear vs traditional amps/pedals in the Fractal forum are like telling people how good chocolate cake is. Somewhat superfluous.

Anyway...after a recently busy schedule of rehearsals, blue-sky sessions trying to get ideas for songs and gigs with the FM9T, I had an idle evening and occasion to get the traditional pedalboard and the tube amp out for a bit of a woodshed and, frankly, to remember what such a rig sounded like after so long.

After I did the octopus routine connecting power cables, patch cables, speaker cables, attenuator and finally plugged the guitar in I was...what? Underwhelmed? Surprised? A bit angry? The tube rig didn't sound appreciably better and in many respects sounded worse or at least less consistent.

'To hell with this,' I said and put it all away after about 5-10 min. I switched on the FM9T that was already connected to an FRFR, moved the guitar cable (actually a wireless receiver) over and off I went without an ounce of regret or guilt that I was compromising or 'cheating.'
Click to expand...
Next logical step....sell the amp.
 
Holy Crap! I remember what that used to be like! Nice setup. I have Just a Mesa Mark V 35 left. All fractal for the last 5 years.
 
chillybilly said:
...and off I went without an ounce of regret or guilt that I was compromising or 'cheating.'
Click to expand...
Definitely not cheating. I can get the FM9 SO CLOSE to the real amps. At this point I often prefer the FM9. Worst-case it's a tie. A lot of people buy tube amps to run a capture on them. I have done the manual-labor version of capture by extensive A/B tweaking over long periods of time.

It has become my understanding that about 60% of the tone is from the Cab IR. So since I'm using load boxes anyway, I'm already most of the way there. Back when IRs were a new thing, I did a lot of A/B between real cabs and IR. Eventually I very much preferred the IRs and sold all my cabs. I've never sounded better on stage than I do now. But I HAVE sounded a lot WORSE.
 
I have some nice amps that I regularly play, but weirdly, because I don’t absolutely crank the amps up to where they usually sound their best, my Axe almost always sounds better. Even at volume, amps are noisy, finicky and have a serious lack of adjustability compared to the Axe. I love both, but if I had to give one up, I’d definitely go fractal. I had zero amps for probably a decade, and was happy as a clam.
 
I play through one of my tube amplifiers about once a month or so. The majority of the difference is the experience of having a traditional guitar cabinet as the speaker rather than monitors or FRFR wedges. The other differences that really stand out: The ground noise is substantially higher when using my real amps. Hiss and hum are readily apparent whereas the Axe-FX is dead silent when at idle.

Secondly, the amount of volume it takes for a tube amplifier to stop sounding thin is a bit of a problem. I can't play my Fryette Sig:X at less than about 100 dB if I want it to sound right. An amplifier like that is clearly intended for live use and playing it at volumes that don't induce hearing loss is always a compromise tonally. That's fun on occasion, but I have no desire to do that on a daily basis.
 
At the risk of replying to my own thread, I will stipulate and repeat the bleeding obvious: there is an unavoidable learning curve with this gear not least because of the vast amount of features & controls on tap. It can be daunting, frustrating, time-consuming but also exciting and rewarding. However, the amp-v-Fractal 'tipping point' usually isn't and can't be reached until a user reaches a certain level of familiarity even expertise.
 
I remember the same thing. I had board tapes of a W/D/W rig I did a pop tour with and I listened back to them a couple years ago when the AxeFX3 came out and was underwhelmed. The ping pong delay in all the Gen 3 Fractal Products at default settings sounded better.
 
OrganicZed said:
The ground noise is substantially higher when using my real amps. Hiss and hum are readily apparent whereas the Axe-FX is dead silent when at idle.
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100%! I had to work VERY hard to get the noise down in my real amps.
OrganicZed said:
Secondly, the amount of volume it takes for a tube amplifier to stop sounding thin is a bit of a problem. I can't play my Fryette Sig:X at less than about 100 dB if I want it to sound right. An amplifier like that is clearly intended for live use and playing it at volumes that don't induce hearing loss is always a compromise tonally. That's fun on occasion, but I have no desire to do that on a daily basis.
Click to expand...
I got past this with a load box. I have a Torpedo Captor and a Suhr reactive load. Both sound great, and allow me to use a real amp as if it were a stomp box in the loop of the FM9. Makes A/B testing super easy, and makes me FAR more likely to use the amps, which helps me make the FM9 sound better by constantly comparing. Gives me access to all the FM9 effects goodies for my tube amps. And it's a great way to dial in drive blocks as well, as I can easily put a real drive box in line with a real amp and then A/B with a virtual drive block, both into the real and AND the modeled amp. So A/B/C/D testing in a flash. All at home studio volume through my nearfield monitors. I can run the amps louder than I ever would otherwise, even on a big stage.

The logical outcome of this is that I am quickly generating VERY realistic models of my tube amps set the way I like them so I can use that tone live without the hassle of gigging an amp.

And yes, I swear I'll upload them...
 
Here's one for fun. I use it with a third-party Greenback IR (not included), but it sounds good with lots of different cabs. I'm not using it super-high-gain, it gets squishy if you run it that way. Best to boost with a drive block if you want more.
 

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Great story, and one that perhaps many of us wrestled with, not believing it could be true.

I was sold when I bought a used AX8 in 2020, plugged into the FX loop of my Mark IV head, and after very minimal tweaking got exactly the same crunch, sizzle and FEEL I have been getting with the real thing for years. The bonus was I could make it a little squishier at a more manageable volume! With the FM9 not only can I achieve that with a plethora of other amp flavours, I have lots more control at my feet.

There's a small pain in my heart knowing the Mesa dust cover is serving its purpose more than ever these last several years. But I don't regret it
 
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