Website Frustrations!!

H

HardAttack

Member
Let me start by saying that the update frequency and caliber of the updates are second to none against most other products. Wow!

Now let me share my frustration as a user. I don't live in the forum like many of the users who are very frequent users to this. Although the product itself receives updates often. It's a challenge as a user to identify those changes outside of a firmware update. Of course that's front page news and everyone is talking about it for the next weeks, and that's great. Now after this kind of update. I expect other updates to follow, and these updates should be easy to identify, but unfortunately they are not.

A couple of example would be. Axe-Edit string. I go to the Ax-Edit string and what is the sticky at the the top of the forum on Aug 8th 2012. Axe-Edit 1.0.307 released. How long ago was this released? It's not until you scroll down a bit further that you realize that a newer version (1.0.317), and that's after 1.0.315 was released. It took user SKYKO to call this out that the latest was released on 8/6/12.

Alright. Some then would argue that a user would just need to watch the the support page and or download page. I would fall into that camp. However, when you look at links such as the Preset Banks, you will notice that they are dated April 24, 2012. Firmware version 6.03 was released in June. Also, if I were monitoring just the download links. I would never know that firmware version 6.03 was even release because the link still reflect version 6.02 released on June 11, 2012!

The next and final frustration is the driver support. If I look at the download page. I see that that the Mac OSx USB driver is dated June 17, 2011.... WAIT What?? As a current user of Mountain Lion, it wasn't until I came across this tread that identified a driver that would work with this OS release.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...idi-driver-os-x-lion-mountain-lion-beta2.html

There should be a clear link from the download page to this beta driver.

I'm sure there are going to be the Axe-FX fan boys that are ready to rip into this, but step back a second and think about this. Cliff and team are world class. Their ability to execute on cutting edge releases are second to none. Why is the site suffering and in return the users in some cases.

People piss and moan about features like Axe-Change not up and or working. While links to users sites have done a great job aggregating these for you already to get you by.


On a side note.. Why release a public beta 2 days before you release the final version? I hope this isn't the case going forward.
 
Your concerns at the 'outdated' file information on the website I can understand - perhaps a change in CMS which will automate the published dates of files would go towards solving that.

Bear in mind that FA are a small team of people who have to cover multiple jobs - They are not Apple or Microsoft. I once heard at Microsoft that there were something like 2000 people, divided into about 40 teams who JUST looked after the WEBSITE, just in the USA alone, let alone their worldwide web sites.

However, your mention of the 2 day timeframe between release of a beta FW and the 'Gold' version leaves me puzzled. In the era of 2 year 'beta cycles' and web services that remain in perpetual beta, aren't you glad that there are companies who can move from beta to gold so quickly? Also please bear in mind that there was a far longer PRIVATE beta for v7 before the public beta was made available - in effect the public beta was 'Release Candidate 1'...
 
Clearly, it's payback for "Forum Moderator Frustrations", because this thread doesn't belong in the Axe-II forum. :)
 
There are some quirks, some of which you have identified. Now let's rip your life apart and expose your idiosyncrasies.

It's simple economics, more employees = more costs, on what is a small volume product.

You're getting free updates, get over it.
 
MG-Chris, it's not about frustration with the Forum Moderator, but I'm glad you're paying attention. The point was to call it out to the largest audience and in the case Axe-FX II general discussion, as it touches on many subject within the website update. The Lounge didn't seem to be a good fit.
 
This is the fan boy flare I was waiting for. Yes we are getting free updates. I'm grateful for this. If you want to reduce the amount of "I can't get this to work or that" it would be beneficial to include updated and relavent links to the most current version. I'm sorry you accept and make excuses for anything less than world class. When you have artist endorsements such as Steve Via, Dave Mustaine, Phil Collen and many more. I think you've reached the level of which you can support a more commercial website.

"You're getting free updates, get over it." Wow, I can't believe you couldn't come up with something better than this. Do you honestly believe that's the response Cliff or somebody would respond to someone like Steve Via or John Petrucci when they reach out as a customer saying they can't get the device working on this platform or that platform.

I think it's great that the company is small enough that Cliff has and can take the time to respond personally within the forums! There will come a time that the machine will be too big for him to do so. He'll be consumed with the responsibility to running a world recognized company like this.

This is by no means a stab at you or the FAS team. It's just calling out points that need to be addressed and bring to light things, as a user you just don't get. It's not a dig into you. It just a fact you fall into this camp and accept things for what they are. Cliff doesn't and this is why you have a superior product. Why should you!
 
HardAttack said:
This is the fan boy flare I was waiting for. Yes we are getting free updates. I'm grateful for this. If you want to reduce the amount of "I can't get this to work or that" it would be beneficial to include updated and relavent links to the most current version. I'm sorry you accept and make excuses for anything less than world class. When you have artist endorsements such as Steve Via, Dave Mustaine, Phil Collen and many more. I think you've reached the level of which you can support a more commercial website.

"You're getting free updates, get over it." Wow, I can't believe you couldn't come up with something better than this. Do you honestly believe that's the response Cliff or somebody would respond to someone like Steve Via or John Petrucci when they reach out as a customer saying they can't get the device working on this platform or that platform.

I think it's great that the company is small enough that Cliff has and can take the time to respond personally within the forums! There will come a time that the machine will be too big for him to do so. He'll be consumed with the responsibility to running a world recognized company like this.

This is by no means a stab at you or the FAS team. It's just calling out points that need to be addressed and bring to light things, as a user you just don't get. It's not a dig into you. It just a fact you fall into this camp and accept things for what they are. Cliff doesn't and this is why you have a superior product. Why should you!
Click to expand...

Your points are valid, but this is the wrong forum and Cliff probably has better things on his mind. Personally I'd rather have these problems you've outlined and the more frequent firmware updates that are a consequence.
 
Some of your points make sense. It's true that the website is not updated as quickly as announcements are made in the forum. Beside that, the support page seems clear to me. We've got everything in one place (Axe-Edit could have been moved to that general download location though). Dates are mentioned below each links. Versions are mentioned too. Not worst than the other brands..

What happens in the forum is different. What do we get? We've got the lead developer/engineer/CEO -you name it- as well as all the core team members and beta testers posting the main resources in avant-premiere. This is a bonus. Something that I've never seen anywhere else by the way. It's just a way for people to get stuff before the official channels kick in.
 
As pointed out it is a small company (I know I have been there). And I do get what you are talking about, I really do! But if something is going to suffer a bit and that something is the forum fine. I will just check in when it suits me and see what is going on.


Reasons: kind of a two folded fear. Price increases over the long run due to more overhead. OK this has been mentioned.
Although the firmware is free ( which is nice) every revision adds incredible amounts of features and this is what appeals to me. I have been on board with the AF II since day one it is not the unit it was just a year ago.
Other companies have released new firmware, charged for it and it is pretty much adding bells and whistles in allot of cases. And not too many advances is it hardware limitation’s? Or do some just want to roll it into their next unit to sell? And bugs, Fractal is real fast to address, other companies weeks, usually months and sometimes just falls on deaf ears.
Bottom line let the boys do their thing (Firmware) Let the other companies have the nice web sites and forums. But also (for me) I never had complaints in the first place a little slow lately but that’s about it.

For me the machine is working, we are all getting a great product, its running great leave it alone.
Forgot support! lots of threads on how great support is, lets not forget that either.

John
 
It's no harder to find things here than any other website I go to, and look for drivers and updates for the other hardware I have.
Its about the same as always, if you find it once look in the same place next time :p
 
I tried to press "like".

Anyway...

IMO, if a company can take time to post to the forum that a new release (general, not beta) is available -- of anything that your company produces, then they should be able to take the time to update the website. The "small team" argument doesn't hold. It's a simple change and doesn't take long. FAS is not Microsoft. They are nimble. MS is not nimble. If for some reason those types of updates are intrusive to the company's "release workflow/policy", then changes to that process should be considered.

A non-forum user should not have to weed through the umpteen "thank you - *explicative*" responses intermingled with the support-ish requests, intermingled with FAS staff's answers to real questions in a release announcement in the forum just to find out what changed or what to keep an eye/ear out for.

All products should have a current set of release notes available to review before a download, not just during an install.

(This is of course all IMO as someone who has managed/coded/maintained websites [and products] since before there were "websites" -- remember gopher, anyone?)

That said, the intent of FAS may be to solicit feedback post-beta-pre-release-even-though-it-is-a-release-moniker before the T's are crossed and i's dotted on the public-facing website.

Or it may be for marketing purposes (social is king now, right?)

Or the intent may simply be that this *is* the status-quo for FAS (which is fine, it's their call -- their successful company!) and those that aren't forum dwellers may simply be at a disadvantage regarding information on new releases, until FAS has the time to polish everything for public consumption via their website.

Who knows for sure.

In any case, I'm sure all feedback is appreciated by FAS -- and I am hopeful that as priorities allow, they will make good on improving their processes one way or another.

Personally, I'm glad I saw the beta and release posts and followed the threads -- now I'm off to finally install seven-point-oh... :)
 
HardAttack said:
This is the fan boy flare I was waiting for.
Click to expand...

That's the part that makes you look like a troll. Sounds like you posted a provocative entry just so you could cry "fan boy" at the first opportunity.

Just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't make them a fan boy or any other pejorative, but calling them such greatly diminishes any valid point you might have tried to make.

Danny W.
 
^^^Exactly.

That being said, I do agree with the general point of the OP. It would be really nice to be able to update Axe-edit, drivers, and firmware all within axe-edit (without having to go to the website or forums at all). Axe-edit could be set to check periodically for updates, alert you when they're available, download automatically, and install. My old Line6 stuff worked this way. I know it's a maturing product, and they're working on frying bigger fish at the moment, so no major worries.
 
When the release is final it will be posted on the support page where everything is readily accessible. In every firmware release the release notes are provided. I have to admit I don’t understand the dilemma when it comes to beta or pre-final releases.

Now this is my humble opinion but I like that Cliff, Matt, Adam and the others share their thoughts and excitement here with us. I like the community atmosphere and it has been a huge learning experience for me on a personal level that I have not found on any other manufacturers site. You don’t get beta releases with other companies. You don’t get user requested updates on a yearly basis much less monthly or weekly. In many cases you don’t get any at all. You get what you bought and that’s that.

So what I am saying is that if your ideal is to have everything official then check the support page. If you are too lazy to take the couple minutes it takes to download the update to get the included release notes then I don’t know what to tell you. I suppose those extra several mouse clicks are a frustration. If you like to be involved in the process then check out the forum threads and use the search options. If something is being released beta or prior to the official release it is always stated. In my opinion the early stuff is supplied because so many are so eager to get it and Cliff & Co are so excited about showing it off. I think that’s cool.
 
Danny W. said:
That's the part that makes you look like a troll. Sounds like you posted a provocative entry just so you could cry "fan boy" at the first opportunity.

Just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't make them a fan boy or any other pejorative, but calling them such greatly diminishes any valid point you might have tried to make.

Danny W.
Click to expand...

My intent wasn't to troll or stir the pot. It was to raise a point that is an issue. As with any forum, and this is not unlike others. You have those who simply refuse to hear that anything other than the fact that everything is perfect. I heard a quote earlier this week and I believe it to be very true. I apologize that I can't tell you who originally said to in order to provide proper credit.

"If you want to piss somebody off. Ask them to change."

When I stated the term "Fan Boy" it was intended to reflect those who feel a very personal connection to a product, so much so that suggesting anything that would imply a better way to to do things (or any sort of change), almost implies to them, that the product is flawed. They refuse to look at things with open eyes, and the only time change is acceptable is when the creator themselves implements it.

Apple is a perfect example of this, before Steve Jobs passing, but that's for another discussion.

It wasn't because this person disagreed with me. I welcome that. However to state that "You're getting free updates. Get over it" and "Now let's rip your life apart and expose your idiosyncrasies" I gave multiple examples of where the problem(s) lie, and based on his response. I find he falls into that category of "Fan Boy".

I'm sure you will take this the wrong way, but it's not intended to be anything more than an observation. Fractal Audio is not the underdog any longer. It's an established company with an incredible artist lineup. They have won awards based on the product. Granted they are not a behemoth such as Microsoft or Gibson, but if Cliff and team want to operate at this capacity to keep it's founding values in tack that that's what they are doing by choice. There's no reason they can't be in a Guitar Center or Sweetwater and such. It's a proven product with great technology.

For people to get so personal over the fact that it's a small company and start talking overhead, etc. That's a hard sell. I'm sorry. I love my Axe-FX II and the FAS team for what they offer. They are like no other company in this field today. This is what sets them apart. That team knows it and is most likely the driving factor behind why Cliff is so vocal in the forums.
 
There really wasn't an issue with the fact we had access to the beta. This is why I called it a side note. It was more just the fact it was only released two days prior to the official release. I'm getting the impression nobody finds that out of the ordinary? It's not a big deal. Fractal has it's beta testers and they are there for a reason.

I was more or less wondering that if you knew that official release would be out in the next couple of days. Why put out a public beta. That's all nothing more. Nothing less.
 
I cannot speak for anyone else but I would imagine with all the guys posting how they cant wait and Cliff being so excited about the results that he just didn't see any harm in tossing it out there as long as everyone knew it was beta. It wasn't put on the official support page. This is where the whole small company aspect really does apply. He's not some CEO sitting behind a desk. He's standing there with guitar in hand noodling away and gets just as excited as anyone. You brought up some vaild points with regards to file dates etc. No harm done.
 
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