W D W question. Can't figure out something.

7

7 Stringer

Member
Hi there, first post!!!! Been lurking for a while though.Just got an AXE3 couple days ago to replace my G System for effects only in a wdw setup. Will be using the amp modeling too, eventually!!!!!🤗

Ok, i am trying to mix in some dry tone in my wet cabs. I was using a separate mixer before with my G System but want to ditch that, a lot of cables!!!!

Tried input 4 mono - output 4 stereo to my stereo power amp. Could not get any dry at all, tried mixes at 100% in my effects blocks, tried putting a mixer block in middle row with all effects in parallel and summed back to the mixer.

Tried input 1 - output 1 stereo to my power amp.

Kinda works but i feel i might have phase issues. My wet cabs sound thin.

Signal goes like this: line out from a Suhr Iso out to input of Axe3. Then like i mentioned, out to my power amp.

Will i be able to achieve my goal with the Axe and no mixer? What would be the best way?

Thanks a lot.

Chris
 
100% mix in your blocks is full wet and no dry. If you run your effects at 100% wet, they'll need to be in parallel and you'll need a separate path for the dry signal in parallel as well.

Also, WDW requires three independent output channels, so there's no way to do that with just a stereo power amp. With Stereo output, you can either do mono wet-dry or a normal stereo mix.
 
mr_fender said:
100% mix in your blocks is full wet and no dry. If you run your effects at 100% wet, they'll need to be in parallel and you'll need a separate path for the dry signal in parallel as well.

Also, WDW requires three independent output channels, so there's no way to do that with just a stereo power amp. With Stereo output, you can either do mono wet-dry or a normal stereo mix
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I thought i tried that? I had one path in the middle with my effects in parallel. But i mixed them back after. Maybe this is where it doesn't work? I am not home now but i will post a picture of my signal path. Easier to explain for me.

I am using a Friedman BE Deluxe as my dry tone, middle cab. The stereo power amp is for the Axe and it's effects only in the wet cabs.

Also, wich input would be better to use? I need to get Cooper Carter's course damn it!!!!🤣
 
Ah, I gotcha. You're using the amp as the dry output. In that case you probably don't want to mix any dry signal into your wet output at all. It will be delayed relative to the amp's output due to the extra A/D/A conversions and processing, so you can run into phase issues in the dry portion. If your wet cabs are spaced far enough apart from your dry one, you might be able to get away with for stage sound, but if all three are mic'd and send to FOH your phase issues might show up there.
 
On the Axe Edit grid I split the signal at input 1 and run two parallel lines. One with effects, the other completely dry ( in my case using an Amp/Cab for FRFR).
The dry mono signal goes to output 1 (into Atomic CLR)

The 100% wet effects go to stereo output 2 (to Redsound L/R). Sometimes with Amp/Cab and other times with maybe a pre-amp in a feedback loop. If I want more dry in the wet signal I'll use the mix parameter in each effect to get the right balance.

I then just use volume knobs 1&2 on the Axe to mix overall wet & dry.
 
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mr_fender said:
Ah, I gotcha. You're using the amp as the dry output. In that case you probably don't want to mix any dry signal into your wet output at all. It will be delayed relative to the amp's output due to the extra A/D/A conversions and processing, so you can run into phase issues in the dry portion. If your wet cabs are spaced far enough apart from your dry one, you might be able to get away with for stage sound, but if all three are mic'd and send to FOH your phase issues might show up there.
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This setup is my basement rig, so no FOH dealings. I was using a separate mixer before to correct the phase issues, worked great. But with the Axe and all its ins and outs, i am sure i can bypass the mixer thing.

Just need to figure out the proper routing to achieve my goal.
 
7 Stringer said:
Hi there, first post!!!! Been lurking for a while though.Just got an AXE3 couple days ago to replace my G System for effects only in a wdw setup. Will be using the amp modeling too, eventually!!!!!🤗

Ok, i am trying to mix in some dry tone in my wet cabs. I was using a separate mixer before with my G System but want to ditch that, a lot of cables!!!!

Tried input 4 mono - output 4 stereo to my stereo power amp. Could not get any dry at all, tried mixes at 100% in my effects blocks, tried putting a mixer block in middle row with all effects in parallel and summed back to the mixer.

Tried input 1 - output 1 stereo to my power amp.

Kinda works but i feel i might have phase issues. My wet cabs sound thin.

Signal goes like this: line out from a Suhr Iso out to input of Axe3. Then like i mentioned, out to my power amp.

Will i be able to achieve my goal with the Axe and no mixer? What would be the best way?

Thanks a lot.

Chris
Click to expand...
I would put your effects in parallel in the chain and then adjust the mix to taste. You'll have a dry path straight through with effects mixed in.
 
Zedhed said:
On the Axe Edit grid I split the signal at input 1 and run two parallel lines. One with effects, the other completely dry ( in my case using an Amp/Cab for FRFR).
The dry mono signal goes to output 1 (into Atomic CLR)

The 100% wet effects go to stereo output 2 (to Redsound L/R). Sometimes with Amp/Cab and other times with maybe a pre-amp in a feedback loop. If I want more dry in the wet signal I'll use the mix parameter in each effect to get the right balance.

I then just use volume knobs 1&2 on the Axe to mix overall wet & dry.
Click to expand...
Yup, understand your signal path. I dont think with my setup that would work as my dry tone is separate from the Axe. I have only a line signal coming into the Axe to feed the effects, coming out stereo to my power amp. My dry tone is untouched by the Axe. I need a way to add some dry, a little bit, to fill the sound. Like Eddie did with his Balance tone. I achieved this before with a separate mixer, solving phase issues.

i used killdry in my G system and added after through my mixer. Worked great.

confused.....
 
chumbucket said:
I would put your effects in parallel in the chain and then adjust the mix to taste. You'll have a dry path straight through with effects mixed in.
Click to expand...
I tried that but through input 4 i could not get any dry. Mix at 100%. Tried input 1 and it worked but the effects sound waa thinned out.

Wondering wich input path to use for best results.
 
7 Stringer said:
I dont think with my setup that would work as my dry tone is separate from the Axe.
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Is there a specific reason why you need your dry tone "separate from the Axe"?
After all, if you're going straight through from In to Out you're getting an untouched 'dry' signal.

I'm not saying you haven't got a valid reason, I'm just curious is all.
 
Zedhed said:
Is there a specific reason why you need your dry tone "separate from the Axe"?
After all, if you're going straight through from In to Out you're getting an untouched 'dry' signal.

I'm not saying you haven't got a valid reason, I'm just curious is all.
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I am using tube amps with the axe. Strait to a cab. Not using the axe for tone at the moment.

I have a KHE audio switcher with 4 tube amps, a line out from that feeding the Axe. Out to a stereo power amp for wet effects. Most people ad some dry tone to the wet cabs, fills the room immensely. That is why line mixers where used before in this application. I just used a small mixer and it worked great. Just need to ditch the mixer and do it through the Axe, if possible. If not, i will use my mixer.

Just a bit iver my head!!!! Lol
 
Holy crap, that's some serious noise right there!...Thanks for showing the pics.
7 Stringer said:
Most people ad some dry tone to the wet cabs, fills the room immensely.
Click to expand...

All I can suggest is dialing back the wet effects (individually) in each block using the mix parameter for a dryer mix.
 
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Ok, so first make sure that your line levels are good going to the input on the AxeFX. It really doesn't matter which input/output you use. I would use one of the 2-4 I/Os though and leave the first input for guitar straight in for future use.
Make a straight line patch with no effects, just I/O and then check and make sure you have dry signal going through the Axe to your power amp. If that sounds thin, flip the phase on the Suhr box. Once you have that dry signal going, just start adding FX and then tweak. You can then use the knob on the Suhr Line box and your respective output knob on the Axe to get your wet cabs up to appropriate levels.
 
chumbucket said:
Ok, so first make sure that your line levels are good going to the input on the AxeFX. It really doesn't matter which input/output you use. I would use one of the 2-4 I/Os though and leave the first input for guitar straight in for future use.
Make a straight line patch with no effects, just I/O and then check and make sure you have dry signal going through the Axe to your power amp. If that sounds thin, flip the phase on the Suhr box. Once you have that dry signal going, just start adding FX and then tweak. You can then use the knob on the Suhr Line box and your respective output knob on the Axe to get your wet cabs up to appropriate levels.
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Thanks for this, i will try that today after work. Gotta a couple jobs today to finish up.

Will report back with my results.
 
Zedhed said:
Holy crap, that's some serious noise right there!...Thanks for showing the pics.


All I can suggest is dialing back the wet effects (individually) in each block using the mix parameter for a dryer mix.
Click to expand...
Yeah it generates quite the noise!!!!!!🤣

I tried it but will restart from scratch and make sure i got all the ins and outs and levels set to perfection. Will try @chumbucket suggestions.

Thanks
 
There's no way to get a non delayed dry sound through the Axe FX. All the signal will have A/D/A conversion induced latency (about 2 ms) at a minimum, so an external path for the dry would still be needed if you are having phase issues.
 
mr_fender said:
There's no way to get a non delayed dry sound through the Axe FX. All the signal will have A/D/A conversion induced latency (about 2 ms) at a minimum, so an external path for the dry would still be needed if you are having phase issues.
Click to expand...
Damn. Isn't there a true bypass path i can build?

Might have to keep my mixer😔
 
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