VU meters, amp level and gain structure

ETOLKIEN

ETOLKIEN

Experienced
Sorry if this is already answered thousand times, I surfed in the forums but couldn't find the answer...
I find the VU meters page in Utility menu superhandy: you can adjust the amp1 and amp2 levels with quick knobs A and B.

In the wiki (preset level) I read: "To adjust the volume of a preset (not the overall output level of the device), try to stick to the Level control in the Amp block or the Level control in the Output block on the grid."

This 2 ways of adjust preset volume give equal results?

This Shasha post made my doubt emerges:
"First it is in my personal opinion that once a preset is dialed in correctly that I do not want to mess with any levels from within the patch that could affect the gain structure or tone. I stay away from adjusting my patch's volume from within blocks. That's just my methodology."
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threa...-get-uniform-output-levels.67587/#post-831928

By his words I gather the better way for preserve the preset tone unaltered is adjust level control of the output block, can someone confirm this?

Supose that I have a very simple preset: Drive-Amp-Cab, nothing more...the tone is perfect but I find that the overall preset volume is low or high in comparison with the other presets...if I tweak the Amp block level in VU page...it affects the gain structure ergo final tone? Will make the amp block influence more/less prominent than drive block and alter the balance between blocks?
 
Very few blocks that you would normally after the amp block are sensitive to the input volume. The only one I can think of is the delay block, if you use the drive function in the block.
 
What happens after the cab block (cab, delays) don't concerns me a lot...
My question is specifically about a Drive block that goes to the input of an Amp block: If I have a perfect dialed tone the relationship between this 2 blocks is unique and delicate...tweak level amp block may alter this?
 
No, the level of the amp block only alters the output level of the block. It does not change anything happening before or even within the amp block itself.
 
On topic::

Which parameters do knobs A and B control on the VU Utility? (I'm hoping/guessing it's the Level on the Amp Block). The way I've been doing this up until now has been slightly tedious.
 
The four level controls in the output mixer are mainly used when you feed multiple rows from the grid into the output. Those controls let you normalize the grid levels within the preset.

The main level control in the output mixer is not a good way to level presets, IMO, because it is a per-scene control. You can't easily update all 8 scenes for each preset when you're jumping from preset to preset (for leveling purposes). On the other hand, it is the best way to level scenes (like 3dB boosts for lead scenes etc).

So for me: Amp Level for preset leveling, Output Mixer Main Level for scene leveling, and Output Mixer individual levels for those esoteric situations that I'm feeding multiple rows.
 
And I do not even really like to use the main level control for scenes. If you have a delay that rings out while you change the scene, the delay level will change abruptly, when changing scenes. I try to find other ways to manage my scene levels - For leads, I usually insert a filter block with null filter after the amp and cab but before the time effects (delays, reverbs)
 
Thanks to you all for the helpful responses!

frankyandreas said:
On topic::

Which parameters do knobs A and B control on the VU Utility? (I'm hoping/guessing it's the Level on the Amp Block). The way I've been doing this up until now has been slightly tedious.
Click to expand...

Knob A controls AMP1 level, knob B controls AMP2 level, I was doing the leveling with level control of the output block but the process is tedious alternating between Utility/VU meters page and layout/output block page.
With VU meters page and quick knobs you have all in the same page and the process is a breeze!
 
ETOLKIEN said:
Thanks to you all for the helpful responses!



Knob A controls AMP1 level, knob B controls AMP2 level, I was doing the leveling with level control of the output block but the process is tedious alternating between Utility/VU meters page and layout/output block page.
With VU meters page and quick knobs you have all in the same page and the process is a breeze!
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks! I've had a few days in a row where I can't access my unit but I'm looking forward to my next dialing session.
 
ETOLKIEN said:
Thanks to you all for the helpful responses!



Knob A controls AMP1 level, knob B controls AMP2 level, I was doing the leveling with level control of the output block but the process is tedious alternating between Utility/VU meters page and layout/output block page.
With VU meters page and quick knobs you have all in the same page and the process is a breeze!
Click to expand...

Yup, that's what I was doing as well. Man, this will make my band mates happy when I can very quickly adjust the levels of my patches like that.
 
I use my xs1 and xs2 for these volume parameters. I can't imagine not having these volume up/down buttons on my pedalboard now...
 
ETOLKIEN said:
What happens after the cab block (cab, delays) don't concerns me a lot...
My question is specifically about a Drive block that goes to the input of an Amp block: If I have a perfect dialed tone the relationship between this 2 blocks is unique and delicate...tweak level amp block may alter this?
Click to expand...

It's not that delicate. It's like a real amp rig.

Dial up the drive pedal like you want. Then adjust the amp block level to prevent clipping and to match other presets (if you need it that way).

The amp block level controls the output of the amp block; it will not change the amp block's distortion.

What you will find is when the preset gets louder, you may like it better. That is just your hearing and perception and not the amp block level affect.
 
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