VP4 Thoughts/Wish

[bchulse]

Been using Fractal products since 2011.

One thing I find confusing on the VP4 is the alphabet naming of presets (A,B,C, etc.)
Coming from Axe Ultra, II, III, FM3, FM9, I'm so used to Presets numbered 01-xxx.

Since the Block Channels are labeled A,B,C..., I think it would be so much easier to
have the presets labeled 01-104 instead of A1 A2 A3 A4 B1 etc.

For instance, it's much easier to remember Preset 32 than H4!

Having Scenes labeled 1-4 is fine.
Just to keep it consistent with the rest of the product line.
Just my $.02

 

[toesalad]

For similar reasons, I find the letters make it difficult to map to MIDI program change numbers.

 

[Rex]

I get your wish, but let’s hash this through...

There are four footswitches, so it’s natural that the presets are organized in groups of four for easy selection. If the banks were numbered, they would run, 1, 2, 3, 4, 11, 12, 13, 14, 20, 21, 22... In other words, the fifth preset would be Preset 11, the ninth preset would be Preset 21, etc. Too confusing. I’m glad they’re lettered.

 

[bchulse]

Wasn't thinking in terms of Banks. Not sure I follow your Banks statement above?
If a Bank is 4 presets, wouldn't bank 2 be presets 5-8, Bank 3 be 9-12, etc.?

I suppose the numbers could confuse other functions.
I don't expect this to change because of me! I guess I'll just have to set up the
sequence of Presets to my liking as in the other Units...

 

[Greg Ferguson]

In other words, the fifth preset would be Preset 11, the ninth preset would be Preset 21, etc. Too confusing. I’m glad they’re lettered.

^This^ is tied to how we identify the VP4 presets when using MIDI. We specify the bank first, then the slot in that bank. So:

• Preset "11" is Bank "1", slot "1". The first digit is the bank, the second is the slot. 1x4+1=5
• Preset "21" is Bank "2", slot "1". 2x4+1=9

If a Bank is 4 presets, wouldn't bank 2 be presets 5-8, Bank 3 be 9-12, etc.?

Presets 5-8 would be "11", "12", "13", "20".
Presets 9-12 would be "21", "22", "23", "30".

And that's why it'd be confusing. It's defining them as the computer/modeler sees them in its memory when it accesses them. People don't think in those terms.

 

[toesalad]

I don't mind the letters, but when I have a preset in U3, identifying the MIDI program change number is a PITA. U = 21, so preset number is 21x4-1=83... not super user friendly.

 

[bchulse]

Wasn't thinking in terms of Banks. Not sure I follow the Banks statement above?

^This^ is tied to how we identify the VP4 presets when using MIDI. We specify the bank first, then the slot in that bank. So:

• Preset "11" is Bank "1", slot "1". The first digit is the bank, the second is the slot. 1x4+1=5
• Preset "21" is Bank "2", slot "1". 2x4+1=9

Presets 5-8 would be "11", "12", "13", "20".
Presets 9-12 would be "21", "22", "23", "30".

And that's why it'd be confusing. It's defining them as the computer/modeler sees them in its memory when it accesses them. People don't think in those terms.

If a Bank is 4 presets, wouldn't bank 2 be presets 5-8, Bank 3 be 9-12, etc.?

I suppose the numbers could confuse other functions.
I don't expect this to change because of me! I guess I'll just have to set up the
sequence of Presets to my liking as in the other Units...

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification!

 

[toesalad]

I don't mind the letters, but when I have a preset in U3, identifying the MIDI program change number is a PITA. U = 21, so preset number is 21x4-1=83... not super user friendly.

Replying to my own comment because I didn’t even get the math right the first time. U3 would actually be 21*4+3-1=86

 

[Rex]

I don't mind the letters, but when I have a preset in U3, identifying the MIDI program change number is a PITA. U = 21, so preset number is 21x4-1=83... not super user friendly.

Agreed. The choice is, would we rather inconvenience the MIDI users or confuse people who don’t understand why preset 9 is really the first preset in the third bank? As it turns out, the MIDI users are better able to recover from that situation than the average users are.

 

[toesalad]

I think having the PC number displayed somewhere on the preset display (it doesn’t have to be on the list page) could be helpful here.

 

[Dave Merrill]

I think having the PC number displayed somewhere on the preset display (it doesn’t have to be on the list page) could be helpful here.

Bleh, typo.

Agree, this should should NOT be something users have to calculate manually.

 

[Admin M@]

About 3 weeks ago I added a table of PCs and banks/presets to back of the manual. It will be published when firmware 2.0 is released.

 

[Dave Merrill]

About 3 weeks ago I added a table of PCs and banks/presets to back of the manual. It will be published when firmware 2.0 is released.

Better than not having it, thank you, but there's still got to be a better way.

 

[Admin M@]

To tide you over.

|-------|-------|
| 0 | A1 |
| 1 | A2 |
| 2 | A3 |
| 3 | A4 |
| 4 | B1 |
| 5 | B2 |
| 6 | B3 |
| 7 | B4 |
| 8 | C1 |
| 9 | C2 |
| 10 | C3 |
| 11 | C4 |
| 12 | D1 |
| 13 | D2 |
| 14 | D3 |
| 15 | D4 |
| 16 | E1 |
| 17 | E2 |
| 18 | E3 |
| 19 | E4 |
| 20 | F1 |
| 21 | F2 |
| 22 | F3 |
| 23 | F4 |
| 24 | G1 |
| 25 | G2 |
| 26 | G3 |
| 27 | G4 |
| 28 | H1 |
| 29 | H2 |
| 30 | H3 |
| 31 | H4 |
| 32 | I1 |
| 33 | I2 |
| 34 | I3 |
| 35 | I4 |
| 36 | J1 |
| 37 | J2 |
| 38 | J3 |
| 39 | J4 |
| 40 | K1 |
| 41 | K2 |
| 42 | K3 |
| 43 | K4 |
| 44 | L1 |
| 45 | L2 |
| 46 | L3 |
| 47 | L4 |
| 48 | M1 |
| 49 | M2 |
| 50 | M3 |
| 51 | M4 |
| 52 | N1 |
| 53 | N2 |
| 54 | N3 |
| 55 | N4 |
| 56 | O1 |
| 57 | O2 |
| 58 | O3 |
| 59 | O4 |
| 60 | P1 |
| 61 | P2 |
| 62 | P3 |
| 63 | P4 |
| 64 | Q1 |
| 65 | Q2 |
| 66 | Q3 |
| 67 | Q4 |
| 68 | R1 |
| 69 | R2 |
| 70 | R3 |
| 71 | R4 |
| 72 | S1 |
| 73 | S2 |
| 74 | S3 |
| 75 | S4 |
| 76 | T1 |
| 77 | T2 |
| 78 | T3 |
| 79 | T4 |
| 80 | U1 |
| 81 | U2 |
| 82 | U3 |
| 83 | U4 |
| 84 | V1 |
| 85 | V2 |
| 86 | V3 |
| 87 | V4 |
| 88 | W1 |
| 89 | W2 |
| 90 | W3 |
| 91 | W4 |
| 92 | X1 |
| 93 | X2 |
| 94 | X3 |
| 95 | X4 |
| 96 | Y1 |
| 97 | Y2 |
| 98 | Y3 |
| 99 | Y4 |
| 100 | Z1 |
| 101 | Z2 |
| 102 | Z3 |
| 103 | Z4 |

 

[Anonyrat]

I have just received my VP4 and it has replaced my Source Audio, Line 6 and Eventide pedals all controlled from an MC6Pro.

My first impression, in line with this thread, was how it was confusing and very 80s - Like a couple of Korg Synths I have that had lettered banks.
It seems like the modern way is Preset numbers as in the units mentioned above. Banks is/are just confusing.
The old KISS principle to me would have been Pn, Sn and Cn where there are 4 Channels per Scene, 4 Scenes per Preset. Banks could still be incorporated in name only - which is just a collection of 4 presets and named.
I mean it's all software so If you choose a mode then it could easily display Preset number.

Also which no-one has mentioned in their wisdom of Banks, is that we have lost 24 Presets.