Volume issues in each scene

roberto_est

New Member
I have a serious problem, at home adjusting volumes of the scenes everything sounds at the SAME level... but when playing live with my FrFr (Headrush 112) the volumes of my scenes change and in the scenes with clean sounds the volume is raised up and those that have fuzz or some distortion are low in volume... I don’t know what to do and I don’t know if you could help me!!!! THANX!
 
I have a serious problem, at home adjusting volumes of the scenes everything sounds at the SAME level... but when playing live with my FrFr (Headrush 112) the volumes of my scenes change and in the scenes with clean sounds the volume is raised up and those that have fuzz or some distortion are low in volume... I don’t know what to do and I don’t know if you could help me!!!! THANX!

Hey Roberto,,
I believe you also contacted me directly via instagram, But i'll share my tips for the benefits of other readers

1) Make sure you have scene levels in a performance page so you can adjust them on the fly at the gig, soundcheck or rehearsal. I usually keep my unit on a performance page and I can just adjust on the fly with the turn of an ABCDE knob. I can commit to a save as well with store, enter, enter

M@ also included a great chart in a recent post that I think is always worth looking at.

I think the only correct answer is "probably" but the cab is not the be-all and end-all of how your tone fits and sits.

I DO think it's possible that you can prepare a set of vastly different tones to be correct. I know this because I've helped to do it for various tribute bands, cover bands, and variety show acts.

In light of this same conversation held recently in another area of our forum, I recently re-wrote the owner's manual section on how to level sounds and tones. Here's a sneak peek at the draft:

=========

Musicians face an almost universal challenge of getting levels “right.” Audiences, bandmates, and live sound technicians expect a degree of consistency when you present your sound during a performance. Fractal Audio products give you excellent control over your levels, but even with the right tools, you still need the knowledge of how to approach this problem. Volume is only a part of the equation, and tone must also be taken into consideration. Without this understanding, you might think you have things right, only to find yourself lost in a mix or suddenly too loud. Here are some points to consider.

WHAT TO KNOW...WHAT TO DO
Human hearing is variable. This due to a phenomenon called the Fletcher-Munson effect, as represented by equal-loudness contour curves.In short, when the volume changes, the tone seems to change too. At lower volumes, low and high frequencies seem relatively quieter. As volume increases, bass and treble frequencies become more prominent.Adjust at high volume levels as if you were at a performance. Be on the lookout for tones that are too boomy or too bright when you turn them up, and adjust accordingly. Conversely, recognize that changes in tone can be perceived as changes in volume: “Mids” can help guitars stand out a mix.
Context is king. When you’re in a mix, your tone can sound vastly different than it does in isolation. Competing frequencies from other instruments can impact how your level and tone are perceived.Check your levels in context of a band or track, and make adjustments based on what you hear. Also, beware of constant change: while you have the ability to create unique sounds for each song, it’s usually better to start with a set of core tones that work well across your entire set and branch out from there.
Speakers matter... and they vary tremendously. Different sound systems, even those that claim to be “flat”, emphasize different frequencies, which alters tone and perceived volume for a listener. Speakers also have different directivity, so where you stand changes what you hear.Set levels on the same system you will perform with, or use the best and most accurate speakers you can find. Be prepared to make adjustments on other systems. If someone else is mixing, walk around with a wireless or long cable to see how you sound. Listen to reference material such as a favorite recording.
Rooms have a sound. Room acoustics play a role in your tone and levels. The position of the listener matters, and certain characteristics can change when an audience occupies the space. Even with high-quality studio monitors and effective acoustic treatment, most rooms still have significant dips and peaks in their frequency response.Be prepared to make adjustments based on the acoustics of the room you’re playing in to ensure your sound translates well in the space. Recognize that acoustical irregularities can influence tone sculpting. Again, listen to reference material if possible, like they do when playing a CD to dial in a concert PA.
Gain kills. Excessive gain can muddy your sound and compress its dynamic range, resulting in a uniform and less expressive tone that is difficult to distinguish.Find the right balance. Gain, overdrive, distortion—call it what you will—it can be great, but handle with care...and understand that lowering gain can improve your tone, increase dynamics, and add clarity and punch.

3) Train your ears to "hear" what type of midrange sits great in a mix with a distortion sound. There's plenty of isolated guitar stems on youtube to reference. They're alot brighter and more "midrangey" than most people think. My tones sound bright and brash in isolation but work great in context.
 
IN FACT, I VERIFY THE VOLUMES WITH THE WAVE PAD AUDIO EDITOR AND I HAVE THEM ALL AT THE SAME LEVEL, BUT WHEN PLAYING LIVE OR IN ANOTHER SIDE THAT IS NOT MY HOUSE, THE CLEAN SCENE IS MODIFIED, RISING UP THE VOLUME A LOT AND THE DISTORTED ONES IN A LOW LEVEL...
 
So it's not that you-re hearing them differently in the mix, but that the saved block volume has changed?
 
Find some backingtracks (not persé the song you play, YouTube has a plenty of them), play along with them and see what happens when you change scenes. At least this will give you an idea what scenes get lost in the mix.
 
Yeah chris! i do it oevery time that I created a preset, but when im playing live, the volume change every scene!
Is the stored value for level changed? Does it then sound wrong under the conditions you leveled the volume originally?
 
IN FACT, I VERIFY THE VOLUMES WITH THE WAVE PAD AUDIO EDITOR AND I HAVE THEM ALL AT THE SAME LEVEL, BUT WHEN PLAYING LIVE OR IN ANOTHER SIDE THAT IS NOT MY HOUSE, THE CLEAN SCENE IS MODIFIED, RISING UP THE VOLUME A LOT AND THE DISTORTED ONES IN A LOW LEVEL...
Have you tried the Preset Leveling tool in FM9 Edit? I use it with the FM3 and Axe III as well and have experienced no problems with differing preset or scene levels playing live.
 
IN FACT, I VERIFY THE VOLUMES WITH THE WAVE PAD AUDIO EDITOR AND I HAVE THEM ALL AT THE SAME LEVEL, BUT WHEN PLAYING LIVE OR IN ANOTHER SIDE THAT IS NOT MY HOUSE, THE CLEAN SCENE IS MODIFIED, RISING UP THE VOLUME A LOT AND THE DISTORTED ONES IN A LOW LEVEL...
I can guarantee this is not the best way to level your presets.

When using a metering tool, depending on the type it is measuring the loudest frequency in your tone. And due to the dynamic nature of a compressed tone you’re leveling with your eyes, not your ears.

Here’s a thought experiment:
Take any distorted guitar tone on An amp or fractal, get it nice and loud and use the bridge pickup at 10 and wide open on the tone knob. Now without turning a single knob up or down on the amp, switch to the neck pickup and turn the tone knob to 0 and play.

Did the amp get louder or quieter? Which tone “sounds louder”? Which tone will cut through?

Technically the amp didn’t change at all. But I would be willing to bet one tone sounds “quieter” than the other.

The point is, if you are planning on using a meter, really pay attention to the upper mids and make sure that is metering nice and loud and healthy to cut through and “sound even” live.
 
ok, but why is that happening with my fractal and the FrFr.

Why in my house all the volumes of each scene are the same and when I connect elsewhere the volumes change?
 
I can guarantee this is not the best way to level your presets.

When using a metering tool, depending on the type it is measuring the loudest frequency in your tone. And due to the dynamic nature of a compressed tone you’re leveling with your eyes, not your ears.

Here’s a thought experiment:
Take any distorted guitar tone on An amp or fractal, get it nice and loud and use the bridge pickup at 10 and wide open on the tone knob. Now without turning a single knob up or down on the amp, switch to the neck pickup and turn the tone knob to 0 and play.

Did the amp get louder or quieter? Which tone “sounds louder”? Which tone will cut through?

Technically the amp didn’t change at all. But I would be willing to bet one tone sounds “quieter” than the other.

The point is, if you are planning on using a meter, really pay attention to the upper mids and make sure that is metering nice and loud and healthy to cut through and “sound even” live.
Ok, but why is that happening with my fractal and the FrFr.

Why in my house all the volumes of each scene are the same and when I connect elsewhere the volumes change?
 
Ok, but why is that happening with my fractal and the FrFr.

Why in my house all the volumes of each scene are the same and when I connect elsewhere the volumes change?

This is an acoustic phenomenon that occurs everywhere on the planet. The room, the volume of how you're playing changes the perception of how something sounds. It's physics and has nothing to do with the fractal.

For example, take an acoustic guitar, play it in your bathroom, then play it in your front yard. I would be willing to bet it sounds completely different. It's not like the guitar magically re-arranged it's atoms as you walked outside.

This is a common acoustic phenomenon. As many have stated, dial in your presets at the volume you plan on performing at in an acoustic environment that is as close as you can get to playing it live. Unless your house is the next place you're performing for an audience, you're going to run into the same issue. Thats why rehearsal and production stages for tours exist, the band and artist want to recreate the environment as close as they can for each stage they will be performing at.
 
Hey Roberto,,
I believe you also contacted me directly via instagram, But i'll share my tips for the benefits of other readers

1) Make sure you have scene levels in a performance page so you can adjust them on the fly at the gig, soundcheck or rehearsal. I usually keep my unit on a performance page and I can just adjust on the fly with the turn of an ABCDE knob. I can commit to a save as well with store, enter, enter

M@ also included a great chart in a recent post that I think is always worth looking at.



3) Train your ears to "hear" what type of midrange sits great in a mix with a distortion sound. There's plenty of isolated guitar stems on youtube to reference. They're alot brighter and more "midrangey" than most people think. My tones sound bright and brash in isolation but work great in context.
I like this chart.
Thanks for sharing as I've encountered this, at times.
 
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