Wish Virtual FX Loop between preamp & poweramp

Actually, I think that is NOT the answer. The answer AFAIK is that in the 80s guitars were getting all these effects added to them in studio recordings AFTER not only the power amp but also the cabinet/mic/etc and the WISH was to emulate that studio sound on the road.
So, historically at least, guitar amp FX loops are a compromise and the request in the OP is like to emulate that compromise when the ideal studio like chain is readily available and simpler to use.
I agree with this. Like many things with guitar its about nailing a particular "moment" in guitar. See also: cranking Master Volume to sound more like a time before separately adjustable preamp gain.
 
I think that is NOT the answer
but there's not necessarily just one answer (though wrt the answer stated above, I'd suggest the guitar gear world is full of "emulated compromises", some of which are even quite iconic) - another answer is to address all those who want true isolated / stand alone power amp emulations in a modeller to match with their fav externally connected real preamps (ie rack preamps, pedal preamps, amp head preamps ...) - hence why this is a perfectly valid wish. Are there challenges (maybe barriers) to accomplishing it? Appearently yes - but that does not mean the wish is without merit.
 
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... this is a perfectly valid wish. Are there challenges (maybe barriers) to accomplishing it? Apparently yes - but that does not mean the wish is without merit.
Indeed it's perfectly fine wish, but I'd rather Fractal focus their limited resources on other things.
 
The Amp Block's Output EQ can be positioned at the...

a) Block Input
b) In between the preamp and power amp.
c) Block Output.

...wish granted long ago.
 
Details, then fake it with the Cab Block's preamp saturation, as Cliff has repeatedly stated he won't separate the preamp and power amp as it makes it easier for others to reverse engineer his code.

I know, as I use tube preamps a lot and would love them separated so I could have a true power amp sim, though my begging has not yielded results LOL!
 
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as Cliff has repeatedly stated he won't separate the preamp and power amp as it makes it easier for others to reverse engineer his code.
again, can't help but wonder why this is constantly stated in response to this specific and quite valid wish, as if, in this particular case, the wish is somehow invalid because of some challenges related to IP protection - no goal is without challenge - doesn't mean it's any more or less valid than any other ungranted wish for whatever reasons.
 
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again, can't help but wonder why this is constantly stated in response to this specific and quite valid wish, as if, in this particular case, the wish is somehow invalid because of some challenges related to IP protection - no goal is without challenge - doesn't mean it's any more or less valid than any other ungranted wish for whatever reasons.
I don't get "your wish is invalid" out of that.

I get "don't hold your breath" out of it.
 
Funny, I just spent 5+ minutes trying different searches and I could not find them...

But I definitely remember Cliff saying that on more than 1 occasion.

Maybe my search-fu is weak?

I suspect it's a misunderstanding. It's hard to believe anything sensitive to IP could be gleaned from that.

On the other hand, I can see where it might be an efficiency issue, assuming the power amp modeling is oversampled the same as the preamp.
 
Funny, I just spent 5+ minutes trying different searches and I could not find them...

But I definitely remember Cliff saying that on more than 1 occasion.

Maybe my search-fu is weak?
I also remember him posting exactly that, i.e., that splitting preamp and power amp would make it easier to reverse-engineer the Fractal "secret sauce", so it would never happen.
 
I suspect it's a misunderstanding. It's hard to believe anything sensitive to IP could be gleaned from that.

On the other hand, I can see where it might be an efficiency issue, assuming the power amp modeling is oversampled the same as the preamp.

I am about 99% that's what he said. I don't think it's a misunderstanding.
 
I suspect it's a misunderstanding. It's hard to believe anything sensitive to IP could be gleaned from that.

On the other hand, I can see where it might be an efficiency issue, assuming the power amp modeling is oversampled the same as the preamp.
I've had conversations with Cliff about this way back when the Ultra came out, as I've always used a variety of tube preamps with my Axes (as well as the full models post Cygnus), and desired pure tube power amp sims for them.

It's not hard to understand that a competitor could easily run tones and noise etc through the separate power amp sections, and then analyze the data to learn lots about the code via the delta in responses, with hopes of reverse engineering it noting that Fractals biggest advantages over it's competitors are likely in the tube power section (seeing the electro - mechanical power section/cab/speaker/power supply power amp combination is infinitely more complex than the relatively simple preamp section).

I understand where Cliff is coming from, and that's my story and I'm sticking to it LOL!
 
I don't get "your wish is invalid" out of that.

I get "don't hold your breath" out of it.
Agreed, "invalid" is maybe too strong, but "don't hold your breath" is too weak, imo, to describe the tone I've often heard on this subject - more like: "it's not happening due to IP so should be discussed no further" (repeated adnauseam though no one can ever seem to find the specific reference). This wish seems worth some discussion, certainly no less in relation to many other not-happening wishes (personally, I've been curious forever about why IP is appearently an issue wrt a "preamp off" feature even though we have "power amp off" - I suspect there is a valid related reason since its a fairly universal restriction in modelling, just never been able to get any sense lf what the general reasoning is).
 
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So, given the above, what is a good workaround to get the effects "warmed up" as if by a power amp?

Bleed some of the FX signal back to the amp (feedback)?

Second amp to run effects through?

Preamp tricks in the cab?

Drive block after FX?
 
So, given the above, what is a good workaround to get the effects "warmed up" as if by a power amp?

Bleed some of the FX signal back to the amp (feedback)?

Second amp to run effects through?

Preamp tricks in the cab?

Drive block after FX?
For my external preamps that I want in Axfx and out to SS FRFR I use the "Tube Pre" amp model with tweaks to the P.A. section - not perfect but pretty good - a "preamp off" button would be better.
 
Best: Use Amp 1 as a preamp with power section off or external preamp, Amp 2 as a power amp with preamp neutralizd as much as possible.

Next Best: Cab preamp saturation or Drive block tube model.

Worst: Feedback to amp likely bad due to phase problems.
 
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