Virtual capo warble

jaycal6

jaycal6

Inspired
I feel like my virtual capo is sounding worse and more warble-y than it has in the past. Here's a short clip with the pitch block off and then on. Just a one step drop in pitch. Pitch tracking: fast, tracking: 5. I tried other settings and nothing seemed better.

Does this sound as expected?

 
jaycal6 said:
I feel like my virtual capo is sounding worse and more warble-y than it has in the past. Here's a short clip with the pitch block off and then on. Just a one step drop in pitch. Pitch tracking: fast, tracking: 5. I tried other settings and nothing seemed better.

Does this sound as expected?

Click to expand...


I would agree… I was using the VC to pitch up 2 half steps to play some Gordon Lightfoot, and it was warbly more than I’m used to 🤔

However, it’s not something I have a great benchmark for
 
I feel like it's always done this on clean tones, better or worse depending on the chord?

However, I do remember a while back, thinking that it was better than earlier versions. Maybe it's not as smooth now, or we are just used to it?
 
Turn the Pitch Tracking 'Off' to use the Tracking parameter. Fast and Smooth are 'default' Tracking values, the knob for the Tracking parameter doesn't do anything when Fast or Smooth are selected.
 
JoKeR III said:
Turn the Pitch Tracking 'Off' to use the Tracking parameter. Fast and Smooth are 'default' Tracking values, the knob for the Tracking parameter doesn't do anything when Fast or Smooth are selected.
Click to expand...
I think this might not be accurate. On the Axe-FX II at least, the tracking value affects the latency with Mono & Poly tracking types, where lower = less latency but potentially sounds worse at times.

Setting tracking to "off" generally sounds worse than the other options, although a high enough tracking value might happen to sound acceptable for a small collection of notes/chords.
 
jaycal6 said:
I feel like my virtual capo is sounding worse and more warble-y than it has in the past. Here's a short clip with the pitch block off and then on. Just a one step drop in pitch. Pitch tracking: fast, tracking: 5. I tried other settings and nothing seemed better.

Does this sound as expected?

Click to expand...

I’m torn because I think if I just heard that clip before reading the post title or any of the thread I think it’d be fine. But within the context of the thread/issue, I can hear what you’re referring to easily hah. Do you think you would hear the warbly-ness within a mix?
 
Bakerman said:
I think this might not be accurate. On the Axe-FX II at least, the tracking value affects the latency with Mono & Poly tracking types, where lower = less latency but potentially sounds worse at times.

Setting tracking to "off" generally sounds worse than the other options, although a high enough tracking value might happen to sound acceptable for a small collection of notes/chords.
Click to expand...
I wanted to make sure I remembered correctly before posting so I tried it on the Axe III. The Shift was set to -4 and with the Pitch Tracking set to Fast or Smooth, moving the Tracking parameter had no effect. Setting it to Off, moving the Tracking parameter had an effect on the latency, warble and overall quality of the Virtual Capo.
 
JoKeR III said:
I wanted to make sure I remembered correctly before posting so I tried it on the Axe III. The Shift was set to -4 and with the Pitch Tracking set to Fast or Smooth, moving the Tracking parameter had no effect. Setting it to Off, moving the Tracking parameter had an effect on the latency, warble and overall quality of the Virtual Capo.
Click to expand...
I asked someone to check this on an Axe-FX III just now, and they said quick tracking value adjustments cause some warble and thump with fast or smooth tracking type in the VC block, but it's not very noticeable with lower shift values. I'd assume that means the tracking value still has some effect on splice length. Maybe someone else here can verify this.
 
Bakerman said:
I asked someone to check this on an Axe-FX III just now, and they said quick tracking value adjustments cause some warble and thump with fast or smooth tracking type in the VC block, but it's not very noticeable with lower shift values. I'd assume that means the tracking value still has some effect on splice length. Maybe someone else here can verify this.
Click to expand...
You are correct, Tracking is still active regardless of the Pitch Tracking setting. When setting the VC to -18 and quickly moving the Tracking parameter, you can hear what you described. However, if the Tracking parameter is set to either extreme, 0.00 or 10.00 with 'Fast' of 'Smooth' selected, there is very little, if any, audible difference between the two settings either in quality or latency.

My point is that if someone is using the Tracking parameter with 'Fast' or 'Smooth' Pitch Tracking selected, it has little to no audible impact on the VC quality or latency. To use the Tracking parameter to adjust the balance of latency and quality of the VC, the Pitch Tracking needs to be set to 'Off'.
 
I tune to Eb, so I use it to practice without having to retune. It’s always had a few interesting artefacts but I’ve never bothered tweaking it because I don’t use it live (except that one time it was still engaged on my lead scene…)

But the other day I had to use it to go up +2 to play long way to the top with a guy on bagpipes. I gotta say it worked flawlessly, I was quite impressed. I didn’t notice anything funky sounding in a full band context.
 
I find it is much happier when you play harder. I notice the artefacts mainly when playing softer.
 
I have my problems with warble and most of all something I would describe as "hiccups" with the virtual Capo. What I need is a stable octave down. I play Guitar and Bass within one instrument with a second pickup just picking up the E and A string with an separate output that goes into the octaver. The Problem is that the virtual capo works more or less when you play very precise but not when you "just play". I have a technique where I strum and mute the strings I don't need. This way I always play just the E or the A string. But the Virtual Capo does always have something like it is not sure what note it is and gets a kind of hiccup. I think Cliff mentioned this behavior in the Fractal Wiki. But also said there is another way of doing this that has other problems but ist very much stable. I think he refers to something like the EHX POG or EHX Bass9.

I wish very much Cliff would include an algorithm that works this way. I know that it has a somewhat strange string attack, but it is dead on stable even one octave down. At the moment I must use the EHX Bass9 wired in the back of my Rack with the Axe FX III Turbo which is really sad because the Trubo has CPU power left to use. But the algorithm doesn't work.
By the way. Digitech Drop is better, but has the same problems as the Virtual Capo.
 
I was using VC for few years with my basses (-2 semi) with nice results, anyway into two of my basses I have installed Hipshot detuners on B string which is perfect. Still my basic bass (Bongo 6) does not have Hipshot detuned (as it is unavailable), so I am still using VC. My main rig for bass is AFX III, in the meantime I built another small rig other projects (mostly guitar, but also for bass) initially based on Boss GX-100. Boss does not have VC, so I had to buy Digitech Drop, which I found not perfect (same issues as Axe), but seems for me more precise than Axe. The other rig was modified, FM9T replaced Boss, but I decided to keep DDrop as more reliable for bass and guitar (bass-2, with guitar -5 sounds great).
 
I notice it too, plus it sounds like I need to low cut (right, wrong or indifferent I think it sounds cleaner)
 
JoKeR III said:
My point is that if someone is using the Tracking parameter with 'Fast' or 'Smooth' Pitch Tracking selected, it has little to no audible impact on the VC quality or latency. To use the Tracking parameter to adjust the balance of latency and quality of the VC, the Pitch Tracking needs to be set to 'Off'.
Click to expand...
Now that I have an Axe-FX III and tried the VC block a bit, I'd describe Pitch Tracking = Off as a setting that should generally be avoided. It seems no better than on previous generations, which is expected when it's not adjusting the splice time based on your notes. Tracking has to be around 4 or higher to reduce the ring mod/tremolo-type sound to a bearable level (IMO), and then the average latency is significantly higher than fast or smooth mode with any tracking value. A quick test with -3 shift and tracking = 5 here showed latency around 4-15 ms (fast), 4-30 ms (smooth), 30-55 ms (off). Apparently fast and smooth are both good at keeping latency low on higher single notes. The highest values occurred on lower notes and chords.

I agree it's not entirely clear whether the tracking value does much of anything with fast or smooth tracking. I noticed a slightly lower & higher maximum latency on smooth type with tracking at 0 or 10, but it was around 22 ms & 36 ms, so it's tough to be certain if a low tracking value can't occasionally have latency above 30 ms.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom