VAI hears 1/1000th of a second latency in Modeling (No Way cheap shot)

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Perdikament said:
i wonder if he complains about the latency between his speaker and mic? That’d be about 1ms. How on earth does he play live? Or get thru a session? Must be extremely trying times for a man of his prowess.
He must also have some kinda new, “Nearer than Near Field” monitors..
“Milliseconds? No way, Microseconds, guess again... Nanoseconds, uh-ahh, try again.. Vaiseconds.. yeah 😎”
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His ego is getting up there with diamond dave. I'd love to do a test of the synergy and find 3ms of latency which is pretty much in everything except for "light".
 
I don't think it's crazy to hear a few ms of delay. Especially when we're talking about adding that delay to whatever delay already exists, either naturally or otherwise.

I've noticed this playing through digital hardware: run through one fx box, and you get maybe 2ms of delay. Add a second box to the chain, and now it's 4ms, and that slight lag is noticeable...

For maybe a minute or so, then the music takes over and it's irrelevant.

I've had the same experience playing with buffer settings on audio interfaces. Change the buffer from 32 samples to 64 samples.. yes, you can feel that difference, absolutely. Especially if we're talking about something like your voice in headphones. But when you're sitting a fixed distance from studio monitors, yes, then too. Same thing with a tube amp in the room. Stand 20 feet away from it, and there's some natural delay. Patch in a stage of A/D/A in the series fx loop and there's more, and that change is noticeable.

When I set my Axe III rig up next to a tube amp, I can absolutely feel the slight delay difference.

Is it a problem ? No, I don't think so.

Just a few observations from someone who isn't qualified to carry Steve Vai's guitar case.
 
guitarnerdswe said:
Well, that's because there is a difference between different types of batteries when they're used in specific circuits.
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Absolutely. EJ uses Fuzz Faces which many pedal designers recognize are highly dependent on power source.

I totally agree no one should make bogus claims to sell products.

But batteries affecting foot pedals and a few ms of latency being detectable... I don't think these are bogus claims. I've experienced both myself, and I'm not a genius like Vai.

I think the more interesting question is: are any of these things deal-breakers ? And I think the answer is a resounding "No."

My Sunface sounds different with alkaline vs. carbon batteries vs. 9V adapter... I've tried it. But I can make music with it regardless. Same with my Axe III...yes, it has more latency than my tube amps. I frequently enjoy playing through my Axe MORE than I do playing through a tube amp. But, yes, there is latency with digital gear.

I think the Axe III is useful, and musical, and pretty damn awesome. But it doesn't (yet) defy the laws of physics. And I'm happy using it in spite of that.
 
Morphine said:
Every time a prolific artist makes a peep regarding modeling people start acting like they slapped your grandmother in the face.
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This is what annoys Glenn Fricker the most about the Axe-FX. He doesn't have a problem with the product, he finds it to be perfectly fine and has had people use it in his studio. It's the Axe-FX fan club that he doesn't like. Like how every time you say something about the Axe-FX that they don't like and they go REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

And I think he has a point. So what if Steve Vai doesn't like modeling? Is it the end of the world? Maybe if you were a Vai fan and owner of an Axe-FX it might feel like a personal insult, but it's not. It's just some guy's opinion. The less you know about your personal hero the better. They might end up disappointing you as they are after all only human.
 
Muad'zin said:
This is what annoys Glenn Fricker the most about the Axe-FX. He doesn't have a problem with the product, he finds it to be perfectly fine and has had people use it in his studio. It's the Axe-FX fan club that he doesn't like. Like how every time you say something about the Axe-FX that they don't like and they go REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

And I think he has a point. So what if Steve Vai doesn't like modeling? Is it the end of the world? Maybe if you were a Vai fan and owner of an Axe-FX it might feel like a personal insult, but it's not. It's just some guy's opinion. The less you know about your personal hero the better. They might end up disappointing you as they are after all only human.
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Steve Vai isn't just some guy though.
 
Muad'zin said:
This is what annoys Glenn Fricker the most about the Axe-FX. He doesn't have a problem with the product, he finds it to be perfectly fine and has had people use it in his studio. It's the Axe-FX fan club that he doesn't like. Like how every time you say something about the Axe-FX that they don't like and they go REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

And I think he has a point. So what if Steve Vai doesn't like modeling? Is it the end of the world? Maybe if you were a Vai fan and owner of an Axe-FX it might feel like a personal insult, but it's not. It's just some guy's opinion. The less you know about your personal hero the better. They might end up disappointing you as they are after all only human.
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I am far from a Glenn Fricker fan, but completely agree.

It's also like people have no concept of how product endorsements actually work. Seems it would be pretty common knowledge that when you're paid to promote something, be it shoes, guitars, etc that the pitch is going to be framed a certain way. The idea of "I wish they would just be honest" seems a little delusional to me. What was the last product endorsement that went something like, "I prefer Reebok, but Nike pays me handsomely to wear these shoes and tell you they'll make you jump higher, run faster, and hump harder so you should buy them. Thanks." Furthermore, if that's how product endorsements worked, would you turn around and buy that product?

Oh well, lol. Flame on!
 
I couldn't care less if Vai actually likes modeling gear at all.
It was the whole approach of the entire video.

Reminded me of Tanya Harding lol

and

"Bogus claim to sell something else"
 
I owned several amp modeling products through the years (I bought the original Line6 AX12 when it came out I the 90’s) and always hated modeling, I never felt any kind of vibe when playing through modeling.

Then I got the AX8, just for the effects, tried modeling and sold the AX8 right away. ....and bought the AXEIII, it sounds amazing.
 
James Nash said:
Absolutely. EJ uses Fuzz Faces which many pedal designers recognize are highly dependent on power source.

I totally agree no one should make bogus claims to sell products.

But batteries affecting foot pedals and a few ms of latency being detectable... I don't think these are bogus claims. I've experienced both myself, and I'm not a genius like Vai.

I think the more interesting question is: are any of these things deal-breakers ? And I think the answer is a resounding "No."

My Sunface sounds different with alkaline vs. carbon batteries vs. 9V adapter... I've tried it. But I can make music with it regardless. Same with my Axe III...yes, it has more latency than my tube amps. I frequently enjoy playing through my Axe MORE than I do playing through a tube amp. But, yes, there is latency with digital gear.

I think the Axe III is useful, and musical, and pretty damn awesome. But it doesn't (yet) defy the laws of physics. And I'm happy using it in spite of that.
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Wasn't the battery thing actually about the manufacturer/brand of the battery that was the bogus part and not the different technologies behind them? Like, one could differentiate a Varta alkaline from a Energizer one etc.
 
I really don’t understand why everyone is so upset about this. It’s just a remark / opinion in an interview. If he thinks he feels the latency, so let it be. If he has got it wrong, let it be. Are we fact-checking every statement in every interview now, just because we ourselves are using a modeler? Are we under attack?

In my opinion Vai belongs to a select group of greatest innovative players ever. And a nice person too. Give the guy some air.
 
I'm 100% with you there, yek. I figure as long as Vai can physically play stuff I cannot, I really have no business arguing with what he says he feels with his gear.

Now, in this case, I do think he's making one statement that IS suspect: criticizing modeling for latency, then acknowledging he has a digital processor in his signal path. Then way I see it, both things are probably true:

1) Vai DOES hear the latency when he compares his amps to modelers

2) Vai doesn't care about it in a live setting, or else he'd insist on a parallel system for his effects
 
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Ratterbass said:
Wasn't the battery thing actually about the manufacturer/brand of the battery that was the bogus part and not the different technologies behind them? Like, one could differentiate a Varta alkaline from a Energizer one etc.
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The story behind Eric Johnson knowing the difference between battery brands got twisted a bit. It was said he could tell the difference between Duracell and Energizer but dig a little deeper into the story and it became more of him hearing a difference between the newer alkaline based batteries and the older style carbon zinc types. Dig a little more and it evolves into him being able to hear the difference between a fresh carbon zinc battery and one that is getting weak. That actually doesn't sound too far out there for someone like EJ.
 
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lwknives said:
I know right! I hate it when quality guitar gear is affordable!
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Rhodes said:
The story behind Eric Johnson knowing the difference between battery brands got twisted a bit. It was said he could tell the difference between Duracell and Energizer but dig a little deeper into the story and it became more of him hearing a difference between the newer alkaline based batteries and the older style carbon zinc types. Dig a little more and it evolves into him being able to hear the difference between a fresh carbon zinc battery and one that is getting weak. That actually doesn't sound too far out there for someone like EJ.
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I challenge anyone to go to the dollar store and buy 9v batteries- you will hate every pedal you put them in.
 
Rhodes said:
The story behind Eric Johnson knowing the difference between battery brands got twisted a bit. It was said he could tell the difference between Duracell and Energizer but dig a little deeper into the story and it became more of him hearing a difference between the newer alkaline based batteries and the older style carbon zinc types. Dig a little more and it evolves into him being able to hear the difference between a fresh carbon zinc battery and one that is getting weak. That actually doesn't sound too far out there for someone like EJ.
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when the voltage drops from what a battery is supplying, the headroom in many drive pedals gets lower, so it breaks up easier or at least differently. one could learn to enjoy the easier breakup of the dying battery rather than the more clean fresh battery. this isn't so farfetched and probably something most guitarists could notice.
 
chris said:
when the voltage drops from what a battery is supplying, the headroom in many drive pedals gets lower, so it breaks up easier or at least differently. one could learn to enjoy the easier breakup of the dying battery rather than the more clean fresh battery. this isn't so farfetched and probably something most guitarists could notice.
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My point exactly, Chris. And also to point out that something, rather easily feasible, transformed into somewhat of a tall tale.
 
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