V6 firmware: Time to Release the Monster - Speaker Resonance Page

Just tried the method with the looper as explained in the Wiki.
I used the Cameron High and a Mesa Recto V30 with a R121.
I came up with about 168Hz for the low resonance frequency :shock
But I trust my ears, not the numbers. ;)
Below that 80-120Hz as suggested, there was no resonance whatsoever.
So I set the Lo Freq to 168Hz and it definitely sounds fuller now.

BTW, on the WIKI page, there's a method for setting the Speaker Resonance Frequencies, but I think it's no longer vallid.
Hi Res Freq only goes up to 4000Hz, not 10000Hz.
There's no Q for the Hi Res.

I didn't want to change it because I don't know what I'm talking about ;)
If anyone knowledgeable wants to have a go at updating that method for adjusting al three parameters...
 
Much more fun to be had with this today I think!

Another question: How close do we think these Jensen settings translate to one of celestions offerings, e.g. the V30?
 
DieSchmalle said:
.I am wondering why these aren't standard settings in the amp block.

Because it depends on the settings in your CAB block and inter-block setting changes are no simple thing to implement.

What if you have two CAB blocks? Or a stereo CAB block? What if you're running a parallel output without a cab sim for monitoring via a guitar amp on stage? What if you're using a third party IR in the CAB block?

Doing The Right Thing automatically is very tricky when it comes to changing settings in one block that are dependent on settings in another block.
 
Because it depends on the settings in your CAB block and inter-block setting changes are no simple thing to implement.

What if you have two CAB blocks? Or a stereo CAB block? What if you're running a parallel output without a cab sim for monitoring via a guitar amp on stage? What if you're using a third party IR in the CAB block?

Doing The Right Thing automatically is very tricky when it comes to changing settings in one block that are dependent on settings in another block.
Of course, but Scott's settings make the amp models connect better with the cab sims imho. Stock stettings seem to overcompensate the low and high frequencies.
 
DieSchmalle said:
Of course, but Scott's settings make the amp models connect better with the cab sims imho. Stock stettings seem to overcompensate the low and high frequencies.

The default settings are a good average and work well with all the speaker models in the Axe-Fx and in a variety of use cases. There really is no one right setting for all for this curve as this thread bears witness to. It's going to depend on your IRs, your application, your amplification, your monitoring and, ultimately, your own ears.
 
I like the principle. I found myself settling on less mid res and different hires settings (different for each speaker/amp combo)
 
Just tried the method with the looper as explained in the Wiki.
I used the Cameron High and a Mesa Recto V30 with a R121.
I came up with about 168Hz for the low resonance frequency :shock
But I trust my ears, not the numbers. ;)
Below that 80-120Hz as suggested, there was no resonance whatsoever.
So I set the Lo Freq to 168Hz and it definitely sounds fuller now.

BTW, on the WIKI page, there's a method for setting the Speaker Resonance Frequencies, but I think it's no longer vallid.
Hi Res Freq only goes up to 4000Hz, not 10000Hz.
There's no Q for the Hi Res.

I didn't want to change it because I don't know what I'm talking about ;)
If anyone knowledgeable wants to have a go at updating that method for adjusting al three parameters...

Not sure what you were trying to do...Were you trying to find the resonance frequency of an IR?

I also see it being suggested to sweep for the resonance frequency in a cab by playing chugga-chugga and listening for when the room starts to shake. I'd really think people will just trigger room modes, and it will also be dependant on frequencies in the chugga-chugga.
 
^ Unless, of course, you are using some nicer headphones to dial in the resonant frequency in the low end.

For what it's worth, I was experimenting with my bass guitar patch yesterday with this method, and it definitely opens up the bottom end and lets everything sing a lot more. I compensated on the mid and high by lowering the Hz value, and things are starting to sound a lot more powerful - what I would expect from a bass guitar. Now if only my BRJ would just get here so I can start dialing in some real guitar patches...
 
^ Unless, of course, you are using some nicer headphones to dial in the resonant frequency in the low end.

For a cabinet you'd have to close mic and listen from an isolated control room though. A manual sine sweep would be better, as the chugga-chugga only contains certain frequencies.
 
I'm curious...it's mentioned to set the resonance 10 Hz above the speaker element's resonance. I'm struggling with the logic here. The IR captures the cabinet's resonance, and the speaker tab in the amp section sets the element's impedance resonance, no? I may be brainfarting, but shouldn't the speaker tab be set to the element's rated impedance resonance as the cab resonance is already captured in the IR?

Same goes for real cabinets. Using SS amp one needs to set the element's impedance resonance, not the cab resonance, no?
 
I'm using a "real" Scumback M75-equipped cabinet (OUT2) and a Cab block with always the same IR-combination: G12M+G12M25 (OUT1).
These are all similar speakers. So what I did is look up the default resonance values of Axe-Fx II amps models which normally use these kind of speakers. Think Plexi, 1987x, Friedman, Cameron. I applied these to the amp models I currently use. And I adjusted the Low Res Frequency.
 
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I'm curious...it's mentioned to set the resonance 10 Hz above the speaker element's resonance. I'm struggling with the logic here. The IR captures the cabinet's resonance, and the speaker tab in the amp section sets the element's impedance resonance, no? I may be brainfarting, but shouldn't the speaker tab be set to the element's rated impedance resonance as the cab resonance is already captured in the IR?

Same goes for real cabinets. Using SS amp one needs to set the element's impedance resonance, not the cab resonance, no?

This is not just setting the resonance - it sets the amp's impedance resonance curve. So yes; that is correct.

The speaker tab does not - you could argue that it'd be one curve; but you are talking about how the amp interacts dynamically with the speaker - so Cliff put it in the amp block. One other *major* reason for it to be there is the guys that do not use Cab IR's and use conventional cabs but want the virtual amp in the Axe-FX to react correctly to the actual speaker being used.
 
This is not just setting the resonance - it sets the amp's impedance resonance curve. So yes; that is correct.

The speaker tab does not - you could argue that it'd be one curve; but you are talking about how the amp interacts dynamically with the speaker - so Cliff put it in the amp block. One other *major* reason for it to be there is the guys that do not use Cab IR's and use conventional cabs but want the virtual amp in the Axe-FX to react correctly to the actual speaker being used.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The speaker tab in the amp block simulates the impedance resonance of the speaker element. The cab resonance is a different matter; it is already there in the IR or in the real cabinet, so it is not really relevant, is it?
 
I'm curious...it's mentioned to set the resonance 10 Hz above the speaker element's resonance. I'm struggling with the logic here. The IR captures the cabinet's resonance, and the speaker tab in the amp section sets the element's impedance resonance, no? I may be brainfarting, but shouldn't the speaker tab be set to the element's rated impedance resonance as the cab resonance is already captured in the IR?

Same goes for real cabinets. Using SS amp one needs to set the element's impedance resonance, not the cab resonance, no?

Not sure, but I gathered that the adding of 10 Hz to the speaker's posted resonance was to compensate for the fact that the speaker is in an enclosure (cabinet). The links that Scott posted mentioned that the resonant frequencies of speakers are higher when in an enclosure. I could be very wrong, though. I am still trying to wrap my brain around all of this.
 
Not sure, but I gathered that the adding of 10 Hz to the speaker's posted resonance was to compensate for the fact that the speaker is in an enclosure (cabinet). The links that Scott posted mentioned that the resonant frequencies of speakers are higher when in an enclosure. I could be very wrong, though. I am still trying to wrap my brain around all of this.

But this is an entirely different matter than the element's impedance resonance, which I'm pretty sure must be what the Axe is trying to simulate for in the speaker tab. The resonant frequency of a cab/IR is there already.
 
Trazan said:
But this is an entirely different matter than the element's impedance resonance, which I'm pretty sure must be what the Axe is trying to simulate for in the speaker tab. The resonant frequency of a cab/IR is there already.

Right on. What I am trying to do is get a starting point for people to dial in and then use their ears from there.

I tried it, it worked for me, I shared it. The 'why' or science behind it, I don't pretend to understand. I am more about method - making the tools work. This, IMHO, works.
 
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But this is an entirely different matter than the element's impedance resonance, which I'm pretty sure must be what the Axe is trying to simulate for in the speaker tab. The resonant frequency of a cab/IR is there already.

I believe Jay mentioned (on The Gear Page forum), that the cabinet play a role in the impedance.

"FYI, the cabinet has a major influence on impedance."

I don't know the why of it.
 
I believe Jay mentioned (on The Gear Page forum), that the cabinet play a role in the impedance.

"FYI, the cabinet has a major influence on impedance."

I don't know the why of it.

I can't imagine how a cabinet could affect the impedance curve of an element. It affects the resonant frequency though.

The affect of a cab is what it is and shouldn't be confused with the impedance simulation in the speaker tab. That's why the theory of adding 10 Hz to the rated speaker impedance didn't make sense to me *. It is exactly this rated speaker impedance that should be set in the speaker tab. If one wants to simulate the real world, that is! The speaker's impedance resonance is shifted approx 10 Hz up by the cabinet, so setting it 10 Hz above would just shift the whole thing 10 Hz up.

Thinking of it...I'm not sure how one should approach this with IR's. I can't imagine they're able to shift this resonant impedance frequency? *) So that also makes me wonder...these setting would vary depending on whether one uses an IR or a cab...meaning, one should actually set the resonant frequency 10 Hz above on IR's, and at the element's rated curve on a real cab....

Of course, using ears kinda important. I'm just commenting on the theory ;)
 
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Of course, but Scott's settings make the amp models connect better with the cab sims imho. Stock stettings seem to overcompensate the low and high frequencies.
with what kind of setup ?
I tried Scott's settings yesterday in a studio environment and by far prefered the stock settings. however, this does not mean that Scott's settings aren't ideal for loud volume/speaker/live playing.

the option to change the parameters away from stock settings has been there since quite some time now. the defaults work really well for a broad range of applications, that doesn't mean though that users can't touch them. it's a little bit like until now noone ever dared to touch the Treble control of the amp. I'm sure Cliff has his reasons why the defaults are where they are and like with every exposed parameter...they are there to tweak ;)
 
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