Using multiple amps and continuity between tones and frequency?

T

Thenewexhibit

Experienced
I’ve been trying some new Marshall flavored amps based on some recommendations on another post, and the suggestions of amps is great! I never really tried the Splawn Quickrod, and that’s really cool! The Brit Silver is great too! The 2203 with the input boost set to 808 is great! So many fantastic tones!

I’m looking to revamp my kitchen sink preset. I basically use an AC20 Treble 12AX7 as a pedal platform amp, and then use different drives/distortion to get different shades/amounts of distortion, but since gapless switching came about, and since there are so many awesome amps, I wanted to implement that, but here’s what I’m kinda running into upon testing. The Marshall style amps sound GREAT! Super dynamic and punchy and clear. Much more preferable to me than using a distortion pedal into a clean amp. However, the sound is drastically different than switching back to the AC20 with a BB preamp set for a crunch overdrive type of tone. Just to give an example, it sounds as if the Marshall is very full and powerful across the board frequency wise, but when I switch, it makes the AC20 with BB preamp sound as if it was high passed to 125hz and low passed to 4k in comparison. Very drastic change. I’m using the same cab though and no high or low cuts (York 212 Mesa Mix 1). However, the current kitchen sink preset sounds fine to me upon using it and recording etc.; it’s plenty clear and full. It’s just that when you compare the two sounds with two different amps, they just sound so far apart. So, how do you guys manage different amps and tones sounding like they’re in the same camp so to speak? It’s making me wonder, should I even use drive pedals, and just use different amps with different drive levels? For example, I tried an AC30 Bright, and it sounded closer in the family to the Splawn when the AC30 was cranked with no pedal for that crunch tone as opposed to an AC20 with a BB preamp. Is it a drive pedal thing that just inherently lops off top and bottom end? How do you guys manage this?
I know touring acts do this with multiple real amps all the time, so how do they achieve this continuity without it sounding like vastly different setups?
 
"...how do you guys manage different amps and tones sounding like they’re in the same camp so to speak?"

My own kitchen sink presets generally feature 3-4 switchable amps, not too far removed from those you've chosen: 1959SLP, Deluxe Reverb, AC30, 2204. The main reason for switching between them is because they sound different. Because they react differently to the same guitar. Because they have individual character and qualities. Trying to get one to sound like the other defeats the reason for having a choice, to me. However, I am a stickler for levels so no matter which one I'm using, they are all levelled to just tickle the red when playing at battle volume. For the record, I use a Strat primarily, 9 times out of 10 with one of the Marshall models (usually the SLP) and ride the guitar's volume all night. The Vox and/or DR are only switched in if I require their distinctive tone.
 
Are you looking for same? I suspect you are looking for harmony in transition. We’ve had ways to morph between settings since forever. E.g. CC control in TriAxis v2.

When it’s wanted, and sometimes it’s absolutely not wanted, plenty of ways to use controllers to morph. And folks like Allan Holdsworth used parallel rigs with a volume pedal to switch between them.

Hope that helps.

edit: I strive for harmonized colors as on a painters palette, with accents, and base colors. Obviously not all colors work together all of the time.
 
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Use the same ir for all your amps.

my main tone is my crunch with a custom solodallas g12m25 mix. So all other amps use this ir.
You lose some amp authenticy but it’s easier that way.
 
I appreciate all of the replies! The one thing I am doing is using the same IR across all sounds. I heard Justin York mention this and I know that will help with continuity.

Right now, my setup is kind of sounds like the same tone with different shades of gain, untilI used the shred distortion pedal, at which point it sounds Marshall esque, but the rest is AC20 reminiscent. If I trade that shred distortion pedal going into the AC20 for an actual marshall esque amp, the tone, on it’s own can be preferable, especially under the fingers, but then the two sound quite drastic from each other. Perhaps I need to try it in context and see how it is. Maybe it’s a level thing, but perhaps, it’s a frequency thing too. I dunno.

It could be a lot of trouble, so I don’t expect a lot as life is busy, but I’f love to hear examples of presets people are using that implement this and hear the changes between tones. If I figure out how to do Soundcloud (I think a lot of people do that? Or is dropbox better?), then I can upload some tones.
 
Burgs said:
"...how do you guys manage different amps and tones sounding like they’re in the same camp so to speak?"

My own kitchen sink presets generally feature 3-4 switchable amps, not too far removed from those you've chosen: 1959SLP, Deluxe Reverb, AC30, 2204. The main reason for switching between them is because they sound different. Because they react differently to the same guitar. Because they have individual character and qualities. Trying to get one to sound like the other defeats the reason for having a choice, to me. However, I am a stickler for levels so no matter which one I'm using, they are all levelled to just tickle the red when playing at battle volume. For the record, I use a Strat primarily, 9 times out of 10 with one of the Marshall models (usually the SLP) and ride the guitar's volume all night. The Vox and/or DR are only switched in if I require their distinctive tone.
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I understand where you’re coming from for sure! And thank you for the reply! I guess I’m wondering; are you switching between these tones all within the context of one song, or are those tones set up as the primary tone throughout a whole song; one at a time?
 
Thenewexhibit said:
I understand where you’re coming from for sure! And thank you for the reply! I guess I’m wondering; are you switching between these tones all within the context of one song, or are those tones set up as the primary tone throughout a whole song; one at a time?
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If, for example, I'm running a Tele into a Marshall for some big rhythm crunch, supplemented by an 808 boost and a bit of delay for a solo, there may be occasions where the song will break down for a bit of lead-singer-banter or something. In those circumstances I might switch over to the Deluxe Reverb for a bit of authentic sounding country twang until the song-proper kicks back in again. That's always fun.

Another example might be if the Marshall sim is getting lost in the general band chaos (we are three guitars, keys, bass, drums and 2 x backing vocals), I might switch over to the Deluxe or AC for a more focused midrange to help cut through. One thing I failed to mention in my first reply here is that I give each and every amp model three stages of switchable gain - clean, crunch and dimed. So if on the odd occasion I do decide to switch flavours, I can still maintain the same gain-energy (for want of a better term) across the menu. And that's kind of fun too.
 
Burgs said:
If, for example, I'm running a Tele into a Marshall for some big rhythm crunch, supplemented by an 808 boost and a bit of delay for a solo, there may be occasions where the song will break down for a bit of lead-singer-banter or something. In those circumstances I might switch over to the Deluxe Reverb for a bit of authentic sounding country twang until the song-proper kicks back in again. That's always fun.

Another example might be if the Marshall sim is getting lost in the general band chaos (we are three guitars, keys, bass, drums and 2 x backing vocals), I might switch over to the Deluxe or AC for a more focused midrange to help cut through. One thing I failed to mention in my first reply here is that I give each and every amp model three stages of switchable gain - clean, crunch and dimed. So if on the odd occasion I do decide to switch flavours, I can still maintain the same gain-energy (for want of a better term) across the menu. And that's kind of fun too.
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Interesting! Do you have any videos on your youtube demonstrating this? I’d love to see examples/know about how you implement the three switchable stages of gain per amp.
Also, what kind of cabs/IRs are you using for these amps? Stock? 3rd party etc?
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Interesting! Do you have any videos on your youtube demonstrating this? I’d love to see examples/know about how you implement the three switchable stages of gain per amp.
Also, what kind of cabs/IRs are you using for these amps? Stock? 3rd party etc?
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I use cab IR's that I feel will give me a close real world authenticity. I could, as others do, use a common IR for all amp types, but again that defeats the purpose, to me, of having the different amp types on call. But we do have the choice and that's one of the joys of being a Fractal user.

There are no specific videos on this subject and at the moment my studio is disabled as we're renovating, so I can't even make you one. I'm going to be down for a couple more weeks yet unfortunately. However there are a ton of my presets on Axe-Change, all free, and many of them are kitchen-sink types that explore these possibilities to some degree. Check them out at
https://axechange.fractalaudio.com/...rch=Burgs&fields=username&products=0&setups=0
 
Burgs said:
I use cab IR's that I feel will give me a close real world authenticity. I could, as others do, use a common IR for all amp types, but again that defeats the purpose, to me, of having the different amp types on call. But we do have the choice and that's one of the joys of being a Fractal user.
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Thanks for the reply! Do you have any online examples on your channel where you go through a kitchen sink preset and how you implement the different gain stages of each amp?
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Thanks for the reply! Do you have any online examples on your channel where you go through a kitchen sink preset and how you implement the different gain stages of each amp?
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Not specifically, no. However I did recently write a bunch of presets for the FM9 that pretty much follow this concept. These let me switch amp types (via a preset change) and each preset is set up pretty much identically in terms of Scenes, scene order and on-call satellite effects. So if I feel the Deluxe Reverb suite isn't cutting it, I can quickly switch to the Marshal, Friedman, Vox or whatever preset where I'll be presented with with same Layout, Scene organisation and effects selection. There's a tone change (because the amp foundation is different) but minimum confusion where Scenes and effects are concerned. I've attached a few for your reference. They should run on the Axe-FX III without any issues but you'll need to be running the latest firmware beta version to run them.
 

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  • MARSHALL 6.01b2.syx
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  • VOX.syx
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  • MIXED.syx
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  • DELUXE REV.syx
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  • FRIEDMANS.syx
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So, this is a great example of continuity to me! I'm gonna download the presets to see how this is working, but the thing that is amazing to me is that they all (at least from what I've observed in the intro of the video before Brett starts talking) is that when switching between rigs, they sound like different shades/rigs reminiscent of the amps being used, however, they don't sound night and day at all to me. They sound exactly like the amps being used, but not like the equivalent of a Sears Silvertone clean vs a boss metalzone on full scoop hahah I'm being drastic in my analogy, but this tends to be how different rigs sound for me when switching back and forth, yet I don't get that vibe at all when listening to Brett's stuff. Perhaps I need to study the Presets and scenes he offered to see as to why that is the case. For me, initially on the fly when trying this at church rehearsal yesterday, while using the same IR, it couldn't be any more of the case of them sounding so night and day, so that's what I'm trying to figure out. :)

 
Burgs said:
Not specifically, no. However I did recently write a bunch of presets for the FM9 that pretty much follow this concept. These let me switch amp types (via a preset change) and each preset is set up pretty much identically in terms of Scenes, scene order and on-call satellite effects. So if I feel the Deluxe Reverb suite isn't cutting it, I can quickly switch to the Marshal, Friedman, Vox or whatever preset where I'll be presented with with same Layout, Scene organisation and effects selection. There's a tone change (because the amp foundation is different) but minimum confusion where Scenes and effects are concerned. I've attached a few for your reference. They should run on the Axe-FX III without any issues but you'll need to be running the latest firmware beta version to run them.
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Got ya! Thank you for sharing these! :) I'm kind of a noob when it comes to this stuff, but do these presets also include your layouts as well? I generally use the FM9 most of the time, and Axe iii for studio work since it stays racked and at home, but I'll definitely check them out in the Axe iii. I'll just have to update to the latest Beta.
 
Thenewexhibit said:
So, this is a great example of continuity to me! I'm gonna download the presets to see how this is working, but the thing that is amazing to me is that they all (at least from what I've observed in the intro of the video before Brett starts talking) is that when switching between rigs, they sound like different shades/rigs reminiscent of the amps being used, however, they don't sound night and day at all to me. They sound exactly like the amps being used, but not like the equivalent of a Sears Silvertone clean vs a boss metalzone on full scoop hahah I'm being drastic in my analogy, but this tends to be how different rigs sound for me when switching back and forth, yet I don't get that vibe at all when listening to Brett's stuff. Perhaps I need to study the Presets and scenes he offered to see as to why that is the case. For me, initially on the fly when trying this at church rehearsal yesterday, while using the same IR, it couldn't be any more of the case of them sounding so night and day, so that's what I'm trying to figure out. :)

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Not sure if you are aware but that is @Burgs vid
 
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